Microsoft to Prevent Linux Booting on ARM Hardware?

By , Published January 13, 2012

Fears that Microsoft would abuse the UEFI Secure Boot feature for their own ends are coming true.

Advice from Microsoft to makers of ARM hardware says that allowing the disabling of the contentious UEFI Secure Boot feature required for Windows 8 must NOT be possible.

The back story

Late last year Microsoft revealed that Windows 8 would require ’Secure boot’ in order to start up. the UEFI standard has been around for several years. It works works by keeping ‘secret keys’ within the system itself. These keys are then used to “sign” anything that wishes to run – such as operating systems. If an operating system is not signed by a matching key then it won’t be allowed to boot.

The Linux community was concerned that persuading device makers to ships ‘keys’ for Linux would be difficult, thus making it nigh-on-impossible to install Linux on Windows 8 hardware.

Microsoft sought to calm fears by clarifying their position, and Canonical also weighed in with their take on the issue. Microsoft would not require hardware manufacturers to prevent disabling of the Secure Boot feature.  

But it now seems that that advice only extended to traditional PC hardware and not anything running on ARM hardware.

“Disabling Secure MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems”

ComputerWorldUK‘s Glyn Moody trawled through a recent document outlining Microsoft’s official guidelines to manufacturers who seek to receive Windows 8 certification for their devices – and he found something surprising.

On Page 116 of the guide is a paragraph detailing how and when supporting the enable/disable of Secure Boot should be permitted: -

MANDATORY: Enable/Disable Secure Boot.

On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup without possession of Pkpriv. Programmatic disabling of Secure Boot either during Boot Services or after exiting EFI Boot Services MUST NOT be possible.

Disabling Secure MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems.

The wording is hardly ambiguous or open to interpretation – so just what are Microsoft playing at? And does this even matter?

With a number of forthcoming Ultrabooks – superthin laptops with extra long battery life – to be ARM based and ship Windows 8, Linux users could be barred from using an entire device category based on the ‘requirements’ of one company.

Here’s hoping they apply salve to the situation as before – but let’s just hope there’s no fly in the ointment this time.

Related posts:

  1. Canonical Seek To Allay Windows 8 ‘Secure Boot’ Fears
  2. Microsoft Attempt to Address Windows 8 ‘Linux Worries’
  3. Windows 8 ‘Secure Boot’ Could Stop You Installing Linux
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  • christian

    I cannot imagine how anyone can be surprised at this move. Microsoft has done it again and again – they leave the current standard open making everyone complacent, and then they take control of the new standard, or change the old standard until it only works on their platform.

    But it doesn’t really matter. What Microsoft is doing is cartel-business, and it’s illegal in the EU and US. We can essentially sue them for this.

    • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ Joey-Elijah Sneddon

      The EU most certainly wouldn’t stand for this.

      • http://twitter.com/davbren David Gross

        Lets hope we don’t leave the EU then eh?

        • christian

          Let’s hope we do leave the EU and somehow manage to break the cartel anyway.

          • http://twitter.com/MrScotchpie Andrew

            Are you kidding?  The UK is so far up microsoft’s arse it’s unbelievable. 

            Countries in the EU seem far more willing to try linux and use open source software than the UK.

          • Reinis Zumbergs

            You realize that UK is EU member country, right? http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/index_en.htm

          • Anonymous

            are you kidding? M$ people are paying good money under the table so M$ solutions are bought for state and city administrations… (BG) A lot of good solutions and apps for linux come from France and Germany ,  though. I suppose the linux (open source) community is strong there
            and this should be enough for screwing MS, I hope

          • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

            Funny how Canonical HQ is UK based…
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Ltd.

          • Fatriff

             You got that right, anytime I mention Linux there is a sudden silence with whoever I mention it in front of. They just don’t want to talk about it or ask questions about it. They would rather I just didn’t go there.

      • Varttaanen

        Nelie Kroes, ehh, Joaquín Almunia, give ‘em hell!

      • zekopeko

        This entirely depends if they are abusing their monopolistic position or if they even have a monopolistic position to begin with (in those markets). They are a monopoly on desktop PCs not in the tablet and smartphone markets.

        I think that Windows Phone 7 phones already have a signed bootloader. Win8 tablets are not going to run the full version of Windows but only the Metro interface I would say.

        So I doubt EU is going to intervene because you can’t install Android or Ubuntu on what was originally a Win8 tablets. Especially if Microsoft subsidizes those tablets.

        • https://profiles.google.com/phonixor phonixor

          I fear you might be spot on, on this one :(

          they’ve done nothing to playstation, xbox and nintendo devices, which use similar methods i think…

          though i am not sure what kinda stuff you are allowed to enforce in such contracts, since M$ isn’t gonna make/sell those stuff themselves… there might be some room there to squeeze a nuke up there asses.

          • conor rynne

            game consoles ARE subsidized by their manufacturers; I doubt MS will be subsidizing  these. Also, game consoles and general-purpose computers come under very different laws.

          • https://profiles.google.com/phonixor phonixor

            are laws really that specific?
            (i have no idea, don’t live in the US, and don’t know the dutch law, which is a pity, cause i love being aware of the stuff i break)

        • Yi Sun-sin

          Is there no computer using an ARM processor, only tablets and phones ?

          • Anonymous

            Maybe not commonplace today, but maybe in the future will be; you never know with the computer market these days.

          • https://profiles.google.com/phonixor phonixor

            Valid point, they are entering this market, but mainly targeting servers i think…

            in which they do not have a monopoly…
            and for desktop computers they can add an exception… though with all the precompiled software for intel, ARM is not going anywhere on the desktop market

            though i admit i don’t know enough about this :P

          • Alan Rochester
          • Anonymous

            all nettops are arm based. I just wanted to get one cuz the one I have know is too loud.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RTXTG5TGZ3NLPF5ISVMB3OYOVU Jeff Burns

          Ultrabooks and similar are still PC’s, rather than handhelds/tablets.  The monopoly ball is still in play.  :)

        • Daniel Waller

          It’s a different thing if microsoft requires this regulation for devices built exclusively for it’s systems like windows mobile or if it just tells hardware vendors, hey if you want to run or programms you have to do this.

          Since the average user still relies on windows the most profit is going to be seen in that market by vendors, thus establishing a monopoly position in ARM based devices.

      • http://profiles.google.com/ezr.ladislav Ladislav Ezr

        Hell yeah!

      • Anonymous

        You do get that, by and large, MOST ARM devices don’t allow you to run anything other than what came on it. These devices are unlikely to use UEFI, so I don’t know why that’s even mentioned (their promise applied to UEFI, which practically equates to x86 machines). I don’t know why everyone is so surprised – it’s not like we’re going to be able to run anything on these chipsets anyway.

        Everyone likes to pretend like running your favourite OS on ARM is just about unlocking the bootloader. It’s not – you need to get drivers together and most of the time the spec of the chipset isn’t even published.

        • Anonymous

          Most Android manufacturers have open, opened or were forced to promise opening bootloaders.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      The US wouldn’t mind this at all from them, but the EU would throw a well-justified fit over it, I think. Microsoft can say whatever they want regarding not locking other platforms out, but they’re not actually going to do it without legal action against them bringing massive fines in the process.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QSPO72KECD5RMZGYGVLEG5DLK4 Theredbaron

        That is what I was thinking. American’s as a people might hate it, but our government Love microsoft, they don’t care about the people. They just want the money Micro promises them.

        EU, however has a history of fighting them. I love how they got them to give windows users a choice of browser. American’s goverment didn’t even care about that. Too much money in their pockets.

        • http://techmansworld.blogspot.com/ MHazell

          Corrupt government. Simple as that. It’s not about the people, it is the money in their pockets.

        • Anonymous

          It is not just the money in campaign donations and lobbying.  In fact the money involved is negligible.  The problem is not the politicians it is the government employees and the failure of the public school system.  Go to any agencies IT department and they tell you what software you’ll be using.  It does not matter that the software cannot do what you need and that there are better alternatives.  What are they teaching in the schools?  How to use windows so that you can perform some worthless task.  When high school graduates cannot make change without the input of a windows pos cash register you have a serious problem.  When the American Chemical Society has concluded that visual basic is the epitome of scientific computing you have a problem.
          This is the left-wing educated national socialist government run society Americans voted for.  Enjoy!  

          • http://johannpopper.myopenid.com/ Johann popper

            You’re actually right. It is a multiplicity of much larger institutions with a clear monopolistic agenda outside of the government that creates these conditions worldwide. There is much more going on than mere governments in the U.S. Firstly, you have 51 governments in the U.S., each with its own thick layers of establishment. And within each of these, thousands of powerful organizations that exist to perpetuate an ever-more complex and totalitarian system according to the ideology of globalization (which is oligarchic one-world governance, generally plutocratic), materialism, and commercial-scientism, which is a tool of materialism, and the philosophy behind all the major science and tech media sources. These all conform to the desire for monopoly, in the first place, and inherently unstable consumer society in the second. Human life, at material root, transforms its surrounding. Thus, thirdly, their goal is nothing less than the domination of all human life from womb to tomb, so to speak, for the purpose of caste stratification, profit of course, but its much more than that: they want a system where the vast majority of people are treated as tools or machines or slaves. We live in a deeply eugenic, anti-democratic age. Professors in the universities the world over regularly and casually mention without hesitation and without criticism that there are no such thing as natural rights, people have no souls and thus no real ontological reality or value. The foundation for a new and terrible eugenic slave-state has already been constructed, and it consists of anti-democracy, anti-supernaturalism, anti-rights, anti-reason (as a truth seeing power – again it is reduced to mere mechanism that can be controlled), and finally the mis-application of the scientific method to absolutely everything, which assumes beforehand that everything is its proper object (and thus all things, including people, are merely one form or another of mechanical machine that can be known in totality and controlled materially. We have transitioned from a humanist society to an anti-humanist society (be it trans-humanist, or materialist, etc.), and the result will be more abuses like this and our increasing inability to do anything about it. Soon you we will all realize, if we haven’t all figured it out already, that we exist for this system, not the other way around.

          • Philip Witte

            Lookup: A Resource Based Economy

          • Anonymous

            Was it the red pill or the blue pill?

          • Anonymous

            Sounded good until you plucked “left-wing” off the random tree, and NAZI’s, really? I would normally say that the problems you describe are pretty apolitical, but since you brought it up, I’d like to point out that monopolies, and crappy education are distinct RIGHT-wing values here in the U.S. Throw in some self righteousness and a stubborn insistence that the Earth is only 6000 years old and you’ve got yourself a fine GOP presidential candidate! 

        • Anonymous

          The US. people might not care, but the US Government will. The US Gov has been switching away from Windows but is putting the pressure on other countries (Gov) to do the same.  I don’t think the US Attorney General will stand for this.

          • Anonymous

            You’re joking right?  Holder will do nothing unless it advances the agenda.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

            So the US government can force MS to allow other OSes to boot on government machines, provided that stance doesn’t change with the advent of Windows 8. There’s still nothing there as an incentive for the US government to force MS to do the same for the average consumer, however.

          • Anonymous

            The only way the US government can “force” MS to allow other OS’s to boot on government machines is as a consumer.  That means writing the specs for the bid.  

    • http://profiles.google.com/trombonecricket Dillon Connell

      I see it going in Microsoft’s direction here in the US. I know it isn’t an easy thing to do, but if you replaced your BIOS, would that fix the problem?

      • conor rynne

        Nope. The BIOS chips on a motherboard are tailor-made for that specific model of board. Switching in a different BIOS will brick your system. Also the  SecureBoot information is held on a separate chip i believe. Remove that and your system wont boot

        • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

          look into coreboot….

    • Anonymous

      I Know. But this is actually a good thing. Because what MS are doing here goes against the law. Competition makes the market go around, and this type of monopolizing is not legal.
      Just wait till this comes out to the public. And it will too. Because, here’s the thing. Windows 8 is not something that most people would love to have installed on their new PCs. Why? Because the vast majority of people prefer to have things the way it has always been. And windows 8 is a complete redesign of what people are familiar with. So of course people are gonna rage at MS for not being able to install either Win7 or anything else for that matter. I’m telling you, man. This can only go one way for Microsoft. And when people learn that they did this to get rid of competition, oh Microsoft will have yet another lawsuit to deal with. I tell you what! People are not stupid. Linux is no longer something that is only known by geeks and “hardcore” pc users. It’s about to become mainstream. 
      So, don’t you think people are gonna be able to put two and two together? Connecting the dots in this case is really not hard at all. You really don’t have to be a lawyer to see where this is going.

      So yea, this actually makes me happy. 

  • Rickard Johansson

    This could turn ugly.

    • http://techmansworld.blogspot.com/ MHazell

      I agree. Real ugly, real fast. The EU won’t stand for this. I am certain of it.

      • Anonymous

        Let’s hope so..

  • Rickard Johansson

    I feel like this is another sad attempt at trying to controle the market, just like the recent storm of patent lawsuits, instead of actually creating somthing that is actually worth somthing. 

    • Andrew Wakeman

      I totally agree, like the apple lawsuits and now this…. It’s like running in the Olympics but making it so anyone who has the ability to be faster than you isn’t allowed to compete.
      “If you can’t beat ‘em, then they’re not allowed to play”

    • http://mark-y-a.myopenid.com/ Marky

      Not just that, it’s all about making money. I just read news the other day that about 70% of Android manufacturers are paying royalties to M$ for patent infringements. This includes big guys in the Android market like Samsung, LG, HTC, etc.

    • Andy Turfer

      When ‘attempt’ becomes ‘reality’, it’s much harder to undo. Have you ever tried obtaining a refund for the ‘Windows license fee’ you pay for a new laptop?

      • http://twitter.com/takluyver Thomas Kluyver

        People have successfully got a refund for Windows. Not many people, I admit, but it is generally possible.

      • Alessandro L

        It is possible, you just had to go through a lot of burocratic stuff, the question here is different, it’s something against the law. Even Apple in Italy for example got a 900thousands euro sanction from Antitrust  since they provide only one year guarantee against the two years provided by the law.

  • Igor Bozato

    Android and iOS already comes with their bootloader locked too, so why complain just about Windows?

    • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ Joey-Elijah Sneddon

      Not every Android tablet has the bootloader locked by the manufacturer, and when this is the case more times than not the manufacturer/company provide a means of ‘unlocking’ it.

      And when the can’t people _do_ complain ;)

      iOS is a niche case (relatively) because iOS only comes on Apple hardware. Windows 8 certification would affect a much larger share of the hardware market.

      • Igor Bozato

        Tell me one Android Tablet that has a official unlocking of bootloader.
        Ive seen this on HTC phones, but never on a tablet…

        • daniel brenha

          there might not be one, but they are not forced by google to lock it down, are they?

          • Andrew Polidori

            Quite the contrary, the devices that Google ships often come unlocked from factory. So I can’t see them mandating a lock down of other devices.

        • ahmet tekin

          Motorola unlocked their Xoom and also Asus decided to unlock Transformer Prime’s bootloader with the ICS update after costumers’ reactions. It became a competition for companies. I think there will be more unlocked devices in the future because unlocked bootloaders means more tweaking on devices. Android 3.0 was exceptional because it was limited to tablets. Android 4.0 will probably change it.

      • Søren Kristensen

        Agree specialy on the fact that apple makes both their own tablet/Iphone, as well as operating system, so in their case I don’t care what they are doing with iOS. MS on the other hand is forcing themselves into to the market by locking other manufactures devices.. What’s wrong with MS?  o.O’ Sure looks like they are affraid of something -.-’

    • christian

      iOS is not a cartel or coercion. iOS comes with Apple iPhones and not on any other phones. Not a cartel – it’s one business.

      Google does not tell the manufacturers to lock their bootloaders – they just happen to do so. Not a cartel – just two companies making decisions that just so happens to cause a lockdown. Also, I do think tablets with open bootloaders are coming – but so far there is not much reason with only one relevant OS able to run on them – being Android.

      Microsoft orders the manufacturers to lock their bootloaders. That is, Microsoft forcibly changes the opinions of other companies using their dominant market position. This is VERY different from what is going on in both iOS- and Android-land.

      • http://twitter.com/Klebed Procion

        I had talk with asus representative, when wanted to choise asus as vendor of tablets, where i can install linux instead of android, but they said that google argreedment don’t allow them to provide unlocked bootloader. So google acts like MS in that point of view.

    • Andrew Wakeman

      That is at the manufacturers digression, you can always turn it off, although it will normally void your warranty. The warranty voiding is fine though because if you disable the locking they have no idea what you might put on it and if said OS breaks the device then they can claim it’s your fault, which is fair enough.

    • Rey Angeles

      Because then the people whom run Linux/Ubuntu wont be able to install such OS. What part of the article did you not read?

  • http://marc-andre.cc Marc-André Appel

    Just don’t buy Windows 8 certified hardware…

    • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ Joey-Elijah Sneddon

      It does remain to be seen quite how much of the ARM market Windows 8 will capture (but given their talents in, shall we say, coercing retailers and manufacturers into ‘preferring’ windows products there is more potential for dominance than in the smartphone sector.)

      • Anonymous

        Most Android manufacturers signed a deal with Microsoft. I bet it was one of the steps Microsoft took to move them to Windows 8.

    • Anonymous

      Easier said than done. After switching to Linux a couple of years ago I have tried to buy non-Microsoft computers, but no luck. If the hardware has been ok, then it has been too expensive, and when the price is ok – then the hardware is not up to scratch.

      • Andy Turfer

        Agree fully. I looked at System 76, but the keyboards don’t have a ‘£’ key, and there’s a UK import tax component that bumps the price up even higher.

        • http://twitter.com/maxibuddah Ian Jay

          Look at Novatech, they sell UK stuff without operating systems on at a pretty reasonable rate and its good too

          • http://www.frothingthefrap.com/ Shannon Black

            Anyone know of one that ships to the SA? (South Africa, Ubuntu’s original home :P )

      • Lee Mason

        With desktops you could always build your own.  I did that with mine and found it a very cleansing process knowing that you control every aspect of the system’s build (to LRU level at least).  It runs Ubuntu without any issues and is very responsive. No Windows at all (although i did succumb to an MS keyboard as, for me,  it was the best product for the price).

        Added bonus of being cheaper than comparably specified machines available ready made. 

        • Anonymous

          Only with x86. ARM lacks such modular qualities. :( And I’m bored by the fan noise of x86 computers.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

            If it doesn’t have too much of an impact on price and technical difficulty in assembly/maintenance, you could always try giving liquid cooling a shot.

          • Anonymous

            In a tablet or laptop it wuold be a little hard. :)

          • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

            Try water then :)

    • Andy Turfer

      If Microsoft are successful, not buying Windows 8 certified hardware will mean restricting your choice to a few fringe units from relatively small unknown companies that simply do not move the volume required to offer you the same level of support and service as the big guys. Just look at what ‘choice’ you have today if you choose not to buy a PC or (more so) laptop that doesn’t come with Windows pre-installed (and hence a Windows license fee at the point of purchase).

      • Jason Sauders

        This totally negates Marc’s point above. You really do have to just suck it up and buy MS branded hardware today if you want to install Linux.

        I’m still in shock over this. I mean, how can Microsoft be that much of a failure? Even I had more hope in them, but this is quite a low.

    • http://twitter.com/Rixzard Rikard Johansson

      Easier said that done. :-(  A computer means a windows-machine, In most computerstore’s, sadly enough. And you would think that the ppl working at them know alot about soft/hard -ware.. but other than Windows-certified hardware and windows itself they usually dont know a squat.

      • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

        Could home build. It’s not as hard as people think

        • Anonymous

          home-built tablet or laptop?

          • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

            Sure, buy a motherboard, cpu, ram and hdd whack it in a case. Why not:
            http://computershopper.com/feature/build-your-own-laptop

          • Anonymous

            there is only 2-3 choices of barebone kits like this one. Also – how about ultrabooks and tablets? barebone kits for them?

    • Zombifier

      Ok, maybe you won’t and I won’t, but most people will.

  • http://twitter.com/awaltzforvenus Scott Starr

    I’d be interested in hearing Microsoft’s stance on this before jumping to conclusions. Something tells me this is more of a security measure than an attempt at strongarming the ARM tablet market. System security and OS installation on ARM devices, and mobile devices in general, differs from the traditional desktop PC platform in some aspects.

    • Rey Angeles

      So wait your saying that you would actually believe what MS says what are you a paid troll? If you are not take a look at this: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2011111122291296 A conspiracy by Nokia and MS to completely destroy the Android market. What do you think is going to happen when ARM hardware wont play nice with other OS’s. Don’t be so obtuse!

      • http://twitter.com/awaltzforvenus Scott Starr

        There’s no need to slander me. How on Earth is me saying that I’d simply like to hear their explanation for the decision before jumping to a personal conclusion make me a paid troll? Not everybody bristles and raises their hackles at the mention of Microsoft.

        There’s no way that ARM is going to only be compatible with the Windows architecture. Windows 8 devices on ARM may only be compatible with Windows 8, and that would be par for the course with ARM-based devices, as ARM SoCs generally have to be designed with a particular system architecture in mind.

        Take the project from some time back that saw Android running on the iPhone. It took far more development time than anyone probably cared for, and it still doesn’t run particularly well, last I checked. It never will, because Android is not optimized for that particular SoC, even if it is based on ARM.

        Maybe someday, someone will get Linux up and running on a Windows 8 ARM device. My money says it probably won’t run so well, unless the device happens to use the same SoC as a compatible version of Linux. Until then, if you don’t want Windows 8 on ARM, then don’t buy a Windows 8 ARM device. Really hard, right?

      • Conscious User

        Please tone down the insinuations and insults.

  • Anonymous

    We will just have to get a hardware manufacturer that supports linux on tablets and not use the crap tablets that Microsoft will be using.  Be unique, Apple are.  If Microsoft  can play hard ball, then so can we.

  • zekopeko

    On non-ARM platforms they are mandating OEMs include the ability to install other OSs. Before this was left to individual OEMs but now they must include it.

    What this covers is basically tablets and smartphones. Both of which have ample precedent of locking down OSs (iOS, some Android phones etc.)

    • Anonymous

      Also ARM-based computers could be locked down

  • http://dag.wieers.com/ Dag Wieers
    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      If the IE bundling episode taught us anything, it’s that Microsoft will find themselves forced to back off from doing this in Europe, but they will still be at perfect liberty to do whatever they want in the US market. Our corporatocracy doesn’t seem to mind monopolies, even though we celebrate capitalism and a free market economy (or so we think).

      EDIT: I know we don’t have a free market economy…but most people here seem to think we do. Sorry for the confusion.

      • http://alaukik.myopenid.com/ Alaukik

        >even though we celebrate capitalism and a free market economy 

        Are you sure you know what a free market economy is?

        From wikipedia

        >A free market is a competitive market where prices are determined by supply and demand. It is primarily found in countries where economic intervention and regulation by the state is limited to tax collection, and enforcement of private ownership and contracts.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

          I know…I tried to word my post to indicate that most of us think we have a free market economy even though we actually don’t. But judging by your confusion and that of others who replied to me, I guess I wasn’t clear enough.

      • Anonymous

        a free market is not the same thing as a fair market, and especially not when the deck is already stacked.  i support fair trade, not free trade.

        • Anonymous

          In other words you would gladly punish somebody for doing a better job than you.  Equal outcomes is what created the corporatocracy.  A free market is far superior to your state controlled “fair” market.

          • Anonymous

            He didn’t say any of the things you claim he said. Free market is like communism – a religion that doesn’t work in practise.

          • Anonymous

            What exactly do you believe a “fair” market is?  Who makes it “fair”?  I suggest you take the time and learn what a free market is before you make another moronic comment.

      • Anonymous

        Where is this free market economy you’re talking about?  We have bunny inspectors, and the requirement to add fuel additives that do not exist.  We have subsidies for so called “green” energy and bail outs of institutions “too big” to fail.  We have government motors which still cannot make a car that anyone wants to buy without a government subsidy.  I cannot buy my milk directly from the farm because that would be far too dangerous and soon I may not be able to buy Frosted Flakes.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

          A lot of regulation is there to force companies to have some sort of safety standard for their products, because they wouldn’t mind ripping the masses off with defective and unsafe products if there wasn’t any. Competition only makes companies do what is most profitable for them, not necessarily what is responsible.

          Green energy is important because we need a way to power our stuff without having to use increasingly scarce fossil fuels and pollute the environment further. And I’m not talking about global warming here when I mention pollution, just to be clear: to prevent that, we would have had to take drastic action a long time ago, and from what I gather we have gotten to the point where scientists agree that global warming is real and accelerating, but there’s essentially nothing we can do about it now except try to cope with the effects.

          Bailing out the banks was kind of bad, but General Motors is responsible for a large chunk of the US economy. That’s a big reason why the economy crashed when the major automakers had to file for bankruptcy. If we had more domestic automakers to provide competition and fill in the void when these big players lost, maybe we wouldn’t have had that problem. If a monopoly/oligopoly’s company(ies) fail, what are you going to fall back on?

          One last thing: I found your statement on the Frosted Flakes utterly ridiculous. Care to back that up with some sort of link or explanation?

          • Anonymous

            The nannies have decided that certain cereals have too much sugar.  http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/07/us-cereal-sugar-report-idUSTRE7B625G20111207  How long before the FDA steps in?  The FDA has already decided that saying Cheerios are a drug because they had advertise that eating Cheerios lowers cholesterol.  We already have bunny inspectors, the Dept. of Education has SWAT teams and the FDA is raids dairy farms for selling raw milk.
            Bailing out GM was monumentally stupid and benefited no one but the UAW.  How does a company that continues to hemorrhage cash benefit the economy?  The economy would have been far better off had GM declared bankruptcy and reorganized or been sold off.  Ford was in the same position and they’ve managed to make a profit without a bailout.  If a monopoly/oligolopoly’s companies fail then someone steps in and fills the void.  GM failed because nobody wanted to buy their cars.  That is no reason for the government to waste billions of tax payer dollars.
            Bailing out the banks was even more stupid.   
            No global warming is not accelerating nor is it real nor do all scientists agree it is happening.  The global temperature has not been rising for 10 years and any scientist, Mann, who falsifies research should be jailed.
            Green energy is anything but green and if you’re so worried about scarce resources what happens when lithium and rare earth metals become scarce?   
            Regulations or not every company does what is most profitable.  They are legally obligated to do so.  There are far better ways of establishing safety standards than big government. The “most regulations are there for safety” is pure bunk.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

            GM did declare bankruptcy and got reorganized. My father is in fact a GM employee, so we’re very familiar with what actually happened.

            GM also happens (or at least was) a critical part of the US economy due to being one of our largest companies, and hence one of our largest employers and corporate consumers. You think there’s no effect on the economy whatsoever when tens of thousands of people are suddenly laid off and suppliers are receiving fewer orders because one of their biggest customers has to scale way back?

            One thing I have seen from past discussions with global warming deniers is that no amount of logic nor evidence can sway them on the matter. The fact is still that the overwhelming majority of scientists, with the exception of a few nutcases, accept that global warming is a real issue. I’d double check where you are getting your facts from (if you’re even checking your facts at all, but rather just looking for what you want to hear).

            On green energy, you are totally missing the point of it. You don’t just consume it one time like fossil fuels. You burn gas or coal, it’s gone for good. The solar panel or wind mill will still be there to produce power for years until someone decides to scrap it and make it into something else…most likely an improved model.

            One last bit I want to review:
            “Regulations or not every company does what is most profitable.  They are
            legally obligated to do so.  There are far better ways of establishing
            safety standards than big government. The ‘most regulations are there
            for safety’ is pure bunk. ”

            Words fail me on just how nonsensical this is. No company is legally obligated to make as much money as they can; I can’t even guess where you managed to pull this one from. You also don’t go any further in explaining how there are better ways to establish safety than government standards…is it because you can’t think of any but are afraid to admit it? The regulations are there for consumer safety and maintain some sort of market order, even if the motives behind them may be political. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle#Public_and_federal_response for an example of how companies would regularly carry out unsafe practices simply because no one was forcing them to do otherwise.

            An analogy: would we be justified in repealing all laws in the hope that people would not commit crimes or do things counterproductive to society for their own benefit? Of course not; people are greedy. So are corporations, and they too will use the ends to justify any means unless someone else is there to police them on it. This is what a government is FOR.

            Your reply sounds like one long paranoid rant that is completely out of touch with how the modern world actually works.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

            GM did declare bankruptcy and got reorganized. My father is in fact a GM employee, so we’re very familiar with what actually happened.

            GM also happens (or at least was) a critical part of the US economy due to being one of our largest companies, and hence one of our largest employers and corporate consumers. You think there’s no effect on the economy whatsoever when tens of thousands of people are suddenly laid off and suppliers are receiving fewer orders because one of their biggest customers has to scale way back?

            One thing I have seen from past discussions with global warming deniers is that no amount of logic nor evidence can sway them on the matter. The fact is still that the overwhelming majority of scientists, with the exception of a few nutcases, accept that global warming is a real issue. I’d double check where you are getting your facts from (if you’re even checking your facts at all, but rather just looking for what you want to hear).

            On green energy, you are totally missing the point of it. You don’t just consume it one time like fossil fuels. You burn gas or coal, it’s gone for good. The solar panel or wind mill will still be there to produce power for years until someone decides to scrap it and make it into something else…most likely an improved model.

            One last bit I want to review:
            “Regulations or not every company does what is most profitable.  They are
            legally obligated to do so.  There are far better ways of establishing
            safety standards than big government. The ‘most regulations are there
            for safety’ is pure bunk. ”

            Words fail me on just how nonsensical this is. No company is legally obligated to make as much money as they can; I can’t even guess where you managed to pull this one from. You also don’t go any further in explaining how there are better ways to establish safety than government standards…is it because you can’t think of any but are afraid to admit it? The regulations are there for consumer safety and maintain some sort of market order, even if the motives behind them may be political. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle#Public_and_federal_response for an example of how companies would regularly carry out unsafe practices simply because no one was forcing them to do otherwise.

            An analogy: would we be justified in repealing all laws in the hope that people would not commit crimes or do things counterproductive to society for their own benefit? Of course not; people are greedy. So are corporations, and they too will use the ends to justify any means unless someone else is there to police them on it. This is what a government is FOR.

            Your reply sounds like one long paranoid rant that is completely out of touch with how the modern world actually works.

    • http://profiles.google.com/wvoutlaw2002 T.H.E. Outlaw

      This is why we need a global antitrust treaty.

      • Anonymous

        NO!

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

          Explain, Mr. Free Market Advocate.

          • Anonymous

            What do we gain from a global anti-trust treaty?  Nothing.  How do you enforce such a treaty?  I suppose the Dept. of Ed’s SWAT teams can be multi-purposed.  What happens when your anti-trust complaint is against a government owned company like Airbus?  I don’t have to advocate free markets to show how stupid a global anti-trust treaty is.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

            “What do we gain from a global anti-trust treaty?  Nothing.”

            Prove this. Elaborate. You never elaborate on anything you say.

            “How do you enforce such a treaty?  I suppose the Dept. of Ed’s SWAT teams can be multi-purposed.”

            The idea behind a treaty is that it’s an agreement that country X will do one thing in return for country Y doing another. How do you think treaties in general are enforced?

            In an extreme case, war or economic sanctions could be used to punish countries involved for not keeping their end of the bargain (though I don’t think it would actually get that far IRL).

            “What happens when your anti-trust complaint is against a government owned company like Airbus?”

            See above.

            “I don’t have to advocate free markets to show how stupid a global anti-trust treaty is.”

            Nevertheless, you still didn’t succeed even in doing that.

            Here’s my advice: take a college philosophy course or two to learn how to properly construct a compelling argument, then come back once we can have a decent debate over this.

  • Satchit Bhogle

    My next laptop is going to be from System76. I don’t intend to ever pay a tax on electronics to this patent manufacturing company.

    • Anonymous

      Have a look at Pro-Star as well.  They sell laptops without an OS installed.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      Might as well add Zareason to the list…we should compile a list of Linux hardware vendors so we have plenty of options available once the major manufacturers give in to MS.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/R25APX2NWD4262MDEYS2BWWEZU Mikolaj

    Sadly this is logical from MS perspective – disabling on non-ARM will allow you to run other versions of Windows, but on ARM it would only serve the competition, so why allow it?

  • http://sgp.cm/KeithDrummond Keith Drummond

    This looks like it might infringe some monopoly laws, they can not get away with bundling IE without listing a whole raft of alternative browsers and search engines on boot-up. This might be a good thing, will force legislators to draw a line under these practices and create some law, which in the EU at least normally prefers competition.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, but that only means that alternative browsers must be available on *their* platform. They may not need to unlock anything to comply with that. As long as they open up their platform, or at least their app market, I bet they’ll get away with it.

      • http://sgp.cm/KeithDrummond Keith Drummond

        True, I guess the other argument comes down to you choosing to buy a manufactures MS or Linux offering at point of sale. Just the thought that if I am not careful with my next hardware purchase I might not be able to run my preferred OS on my hardware. I would like to hear what the companies have to say about. Canonical will need to set up a wiki listing all manufacturers that lock out Ubuntu by default.

  • https://launchpad.net/~exeleration-g Exeleration-G

    Shouldn’t this article have the ‘Breaking’ tag?

  • Anonymous

    Ultrabooks aren’t ARM devices. The name itself was coined by Intel to describe non-Apple Macbook Air-like ultra-portable devices. (Refer to Wikipedia’s article on ultrabook)

    While I won’t deny the possibility of similar devices sporting ARM, you used ultrabook in the wrong context. It’s unlikely ARM devices running Windows 8 would be anything more than tablets or, less likely, netbooks.

  • Andy Turfer

    Unfortunately I don’t think a boycott from the Linux community will make that much of an impact. This tactic is clearly aimed at mainstream consumers who neither know of (or care about, for that matter) the dirty tricks being used by Microsoft corporation.

    The EU will do absolutely nothing. Look at the effort a consumer must go through in order to buy a laptop or desktop PC that doesn’t have Windows installed here in the EU (and let’s not kid ourselves here – it is a considerable effort, and not a path most mainstream consumers even know about).

    Bundle is clearly in violation of EU regulations, yet the EU does nothing about OEMs bundling Microsoft Windows (a distinct and separate product) with OEM laptops and desktops.

    This could well result in Microsoft catching up to, and surpassing, the competition in the mobile space.

    • http://twitter.com/takluyver Thomas Kluyver

      I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think bundling is against EU regulations – bundles are a perfectly normal part of commerce. What’s illegal is using your market dominance with one product to suppress competition in another. So Windows (the dominant OS) wasn’t allowed to push IE, because it suppressed competition in the browser market. On the other hand, Apple are OK selling Macs with Safari, because they only have a small share of the market.

      Whether that applies in this case isn’t clear. Microsoft is clearly dominant on PCs, but not on tablets. I hope the EU does step in, but I wouldn’t want to rely on it.

    • Jonathan Wong

      So we don’t jsut boycott.  We take serious action.  Hell, get Anonymous to hack Microsoft if we have to.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_R7GMESS5NPVWOXBALIBAUG72WA 민식

    dang… unless ppl can unlock secure boot from uefi, it is looks very hard for noobies, and will prevent new-comers to linux. ms’s action is just intangible. the whole opensource community should sue them.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe we should be thinking about pushing out Ubuntu on Arm devices far sooner then to capture ARM devices before they are locked down.  That way Windows 8 will just be another fad  on a touch pad. Lets dampen down their fire. Get a move on Canonical :)

  • Sam Castillo

    This is a bit desperate. They know they have a long way to go to make a dent in the tablet market so they are coming out fighting. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/matt.wartell matt wartell

    So Microsoft is trying to make Zune 2.0 to help their sales? Great idea, really great; I expect this will only bring them increased fortunes and customer loyalty.

  • http://localhost/ Mainstream

    Well, this means my next computer i buy will not be shipped with a default operating system (in this case Windows), simple and clear as that.

  • https://launchpad.net/~esteinma Erik

    Scary unfolding of events. I don’t care much for ARM-devices myself but it’s a precedent. Having to disable secureboot in the UEFI to boot Linux is another barrier for the average user.  The only reason Microsoft doesn’t demand PCs to be locked entirely is antitrust legislation.

  • Charles Durant

    This is hilarious considering Canonical HELPED MICROSOFT develop an ARM compatible platform.
    Wow… simply, wow.

    • Anonymous

      How so?

    • Anonymous

      How did they help?

  • Geir Offenberg

    “Here’s hoping they apply salve to the situation as before – but let’s just hope there’s no fly in the ointment this time.” thats two references to the bible in one sentence.

    • Anonymous

      How is mentioning salve and a fly in ointment a bible reference?

  • Anonymous

    I think Fedora/Red Hat is trying to get around this… though that’s all hear say

  • http://twitter.com/zaghy2zy Ivan Lapis

    This FUD again?

    • Anonymous

      How is that FUD?

    • Jonathan Wong

      The guidelines clearly state that they want to prevent unabling secure boot.  Its not liek anyone is twisting those words. 

  • Anonymous

    here’s hoping for an EU anti-trust case – and pronto. Microsoft is trying to re-define the PC to pre-IBM PC days.

  • Anonymous

    Why is this about Microsoft? Doesn’t all ARM hardware prevent this? That’s why you have to go through fancy rooting to unlock an Android or iPhone device.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RTXTG5TGZ3NLPF5ISVMB3OYOVU Jeff Burns

      Less and less bootloaders are locked now.  iPhone is getting to be one of the last ones.  Some of the companies with locked bootloaders supply the tools to unlock as well. 

  • Alessandro L

    It is never going to happen in EU, it’s against the law on a generic hardware, Microsoft could do it only if it start to produce hardware, ha ha ha can you immagine it? Btw who is going to buy a W8 tablet?

    • Joern Konopka

      Yeah, who’s gonna buy a Tablet that will seamlessly integrate with the W7 PC you’re already running cause you never even heard of Linux? Hmmmm…….

      The point about it being illegal stays valid though, at least at first sight, we need to keep an eye on how this plays out over time and how Microsoft will try to justify this decision. It’s not like their lawyers are stupid or anything.

      • Joaquin Padilla Rivero

        People are not buying Windows  Phones which seamlessly integrate with the W7 PC they’re running. Windows is a pretty poor brand in terms of value.

  • syncdram syncdram

    Lets look at this in a positive way. Every front running Linux distribution will now be forced to stop riding the coat tails of Microsoft. We can now put our money were our mouth is and either bloom because of this or wilt away. This will show just how strong Linux really is.  Lets face it Ubuntu has had a pretty loud mouth lately and its time Mark Shuttleworth lets go of apple  and puts us out front. If not Microsoft has one this one for sure hands down.  Lets face the facts, in one form or another Linux has always been attached to Microsoft in one fashion or another, its time we gird ourselves up and put Linux out front were it belongs. 

    • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

      Well said! Personally, I am ready to forget about MS completely as a holy rule. No dual boot.
      Few steps only from Ubuntu being the best OS : Sound engineering capabilities, Video edition capabilities, Adoption of Wayland as Windows Manager, maturation of Bumblebee…and so few…
      Sometimes, applications like Guitar Rig or Adobe Photocrap would push desktop users to need a Windows copy to run them as they don’t have their equivalent in the Linux world. 
      I believe the community should move ahead again to offer equivalents of key applications.

      • Aidan Sheridan

        I agree with you about Adobe – GIMP is good, but I miss PhotoShop. The lack of Adobe products is the main reason my friends and family have stuck with, or are dual-booting, Windows. Another reason for this is the lack of games on Linux, sure there’s Wine, but that’s not enough for people who always play the newest and best games on the markets. I tend to joke with them saying Linux is practically the gathering spot for all indie games, which is practically true because all we seem to have are indie games, and clones of older popular/classic games… I think there should be a combined effort of major Linux supporting companies, Canonical for example, to encourage software/game developers to support Linux.

        • Anonymous

          I do support your opinion – Canonical should focus  on polishing and improving key apps. GIMP is really powerful, but still there is a lot to be in terms of look.  To add a action, one has to go through a lot of reading and trying.  Not to mention the ugly look.
          LibreOffice  needs a decent OneNote alternative. The look- well, ugly….
          As for games, I have slightly different opinion:
          - PC games market is declining, as far as I know, and more titles focus on mobile and consoles,
          -Wine is getting better every day, and on my nvidia desktop machine I am able to run everything I tried, though some older titles needed a bit of fiddling.
          I dont thing games focus should be that vital, but key productivity focus is.

          • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

            Again, your comment is rational and go with the right flow! As Aidan said and myself, Productivity is the priority. I love GIMP and I believe that witvh some push and pull, the community can make it become the equivalent of PhotoShop. And if you read the recent article about LibreOffice, a new GUI is being developed for it (a very beautiful one named Citrus or something like that). 

            - You said PC Gaming is declining. Probably in profit of consoles. Well myself I never considered PC gaming to be a serious hobby. Would Canonical follow our thinking and innovate around this?- Yet, I do not agree about Wine. yes it’s getting better and better but would it reach the level of running things as natively as possible? For the sake of the beginner user? No problem for me to fiddle and workaround but the newbies (they are the most numerous) would just say “Gosh, Linux is hell, why things arent so easy as MS Windows?”

          • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

            Check penumbra, its a badass game. Also try urbanterror. Good game devs like ID software provide native installers for their games too :)

        • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

          I totally agree. Wine is definitely not the solution. It is a workaround, not more! Canonical are not that stupid nor blind to forget about games. They’re on the way. That is what I heard and it’s logical. They are working on the Mobile version, the TV version and you would probably hear that Canonical is planning to have games partners and go beyond indie. Some fellows believe that Canonical might release a gaming box like PS3 or XBOX, based on Linux later which is not utopist at all. Anyway. I am optimistic.

          There is no other conclusion to get from this latter Microsoft move but that Linux won and is winning on.  Linux Won on security , on speed, on servers, is winning on desktop…… Normal, MS cannot do anything but to block. Yet, things are going to turn against them. I do believe in it and so do all the IT colleagues here in France.

          • conor rynne

            I cannot see Canonical releasing a games console. Most publishers/developers would insist on there being DRM policies, incompatible with Canonical’s main audience, as standard. Look at the Xbox360 and PS3, for example; new games require firmware updates, and to play online you must always have the latest version, even if it removes a feature you really want.

            Most of Canonical’s customers expect to have the ability to disagree with Canonical’s design decisions, and seek alternatives when neccessary. But giving people freedom on the box risks the ability to crack any reasonable DRM, and so the publishers/developers will insist on much more draconian measures. Can i switch between firmware versions at will? Can i say that I do not like Metro on my Xbox, and revert back to NXE? can i bollocks, unfortunately :(

          • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

            Indeed. I am aware of that too. Well! I forgot to detail that things might impressively change, when it comes to policies. Gaming industry is inevitable to make Linux blossom. Those issues you revealed are being addressed here and there. I met recently influent people from US and Europe during the recent DigiWorld summit. These policy acts, firmware matters, online accessibility, net neutrality…..etc are going towards a huge change generally led by financial trends. 

            There is a business model related to what you’ve just said Conor. 
            Once you see issues of Linux Nvidia being addressed effectively, expect your wishes to start being fulfilled!

          • http://profiles.google.com/fahadayaz Fahad Ayaz

            Let’s build using NaCl and have cross-platform gaming and applications. 

            I saw this recently and was highly impressed!

            http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/UbuntuVibes/~3/2VI3sFFR82w/native-client-much-awaited-action-game.html

          • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

            :) Seems interesting! I ended browsing other parts of ubuntuvibe.   Gaming is not my cup of tea but I surely would contribute in some ways in the near future.  Gotta read a bit about this NaCl. Technically speaking, I cannot make a move before Canonical implements Wayland. Scheduled for summer 2012.  ”What the heck is he saying?” :) 

      • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

        Wayland isn’t a WM

        • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

          A compositor for display protocols! When quoted Wayland, it was refered as the main host or they key behind windows management!

          • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

            Wayland is an alternative to Xorg. The windows manager and/or desktop environment will run on top of that.

          • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

            That’s it. And XORG is a very old one.  Wayland seems to be more promising (OpenGL….Nvidia…)!

          • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

            Nvidia won’t be supporting wayland

          • http://profile.typepad.com/6p0120a5509de8970c Mikko

            AMD/ATI won’t be supporting wayland

        • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

          I checked http://www.penumbragame.com/

          The Black Plague is awesome :) Gonna dig on. Thanks

    • http://www.twm-kd.com/ BigWhale

       I am one of those people that don’t smack talk about Microsoft or Windows and I really do believe that competition is good.

      But.

      Competition has to be fair and play by the same rules. This right now doesn’t seem like a fair fight. It is not even a David vs. Goliath type of a fight. It is more like David vs. Battle Mech (100 Ton Atlaas, to be more precise).

    • Anonymous

      Linux is strong technically. But Linux-based systems are weak on consumer mind-share. I think there is no critical mass of mind share to even maintain their current level of consumer popularity.
      Mac OS X is tied to Apple hardware. Even with a rich brand history and high quality advertising on a massive scale, Mac OS X is only at about 10% user share right now (I consider that to be a significant share, though). If Linux-based systems are locked out of common devices, then consumers would have to buy hardware just to run it — and who would do the massive advertising to get it to a significant, self-sustaining user share?

      Of course, we don’t know just how ubiquitous or obscure Windows 8 will become on non-Apple ARM hardware and non-ARM hardware will not be affected (except that users will have to perform BIOS configuration to even try using a Linux system).

      (Keep in mind that distributions will continue to co-exist with Windows on the desktop while being locked out of at least some ARM devices.)

    • syncdram syncdram

      I found some additional info, here is the link  http://www.softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confirms-UEFI-fears-locks-down-ARM/

  • http://profiles.google.com/luisalvaradox Luis Alvarado

    So let me get this. Microsoft wants to force hardware makers into only using them?. How about Microsoft learns that hardware makers are the ones that can do anything they would like, not the other way around. If an ARM tablet wants to make a hardware open to any OS then Microsoft has to adapt to it, not the hardware adapt to the OS and the OS demands.

    I do not see Linux demanding anything. It looks like, yet again, Microsoft is bullying another player. I think it is time to step up in groups and the hardware players tell all OSes and software vendors (Not only Microsoft) that they can create any hardware they want, any way they want and as open as they want. No OS should have a saying and I am not even getting to “the right” to say what should be made or not be made. If you want that, make your own hardware (because that is why the zune was so awesome that it left the competition area “too zune”).

    • Anonymous

      Unfortunately there’s only one Microsoft (with money), where as there are many hardware manufactures. If one hardware manufacturer says no to MS, MS simply doesn’t give them  deal, there are plenty more fish in the sea, MS loose practically nothing from it, but a hardware manufacturer, not certified for Windows, is not in a good position.

  • Ralph Bromley

    Meh there will be ways around this, there are always are.

  • Keorapetse Mogajane

    VMware and android are working on a dual OS alternative which doesnt require a bootloader. Maybe it can be a future solution

  • http://twitter.com/raulvalino Raúl Valiño

    I haven’t given it a real thought (I don’t give a thought to much these days) but, what if all the linux software developers decided to do something like sell their own computers and gadgets preinstalling their own OSes (knowing that, in any case, the user could install any OS, even Windows)? They’d make a buck, since even windows users could buy them -and then install whatever they find on the internet, for example- and their users would do what they want, buy computers at a lower price. And free!

    • Anonymous

      Might work for some. The issue is though that most become come to Linux because they get annoyed with Windows not working or being too slow or crashing too much. In frustration they decide to try something else, Linux, because, it’s free, there is no risk in trying it. If running Linux required people to buy specialised hardware, then the chances are that it would put people off. People who intend to run Windows, won’t pay extra for hardware which will allow some an unwanted feature, and then cause extra work.

      Basically, the issue is not in keeping the Linux users. There will be ways of installing Linux on secured hardware, at least on some hardware. You’ll have to jailbreak your computer or something similar, and at a guess this would only work for some hardware, and new hardware would take a while.

      The issue, however, is that it pushes Linux way back into the realm of geeks again. If flashing your bios or some other kind of hack is required just to allow it to run, people aren’t going to be so happy to just “give it a go”.

      I’d like some more information on the keys. It’s possible that the larger players such as Canonical or Red Hat might be able to get keys. And hopefully, those keys would find there way to the derivatives. The issue though is that I guess it would be hard to keep the keys secret with an open source project.

  • http://techmansworld.blogspot.com/ MHazell

    The EU probably won’t stand for this. I’m certain of it.

    • Anonymous

      I hope your right. 

    • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

      I think you’re right. Especially the education and public fields where there is a huge need now for non costy IT systems. Open source is going to be soon a mandatory ideology. 
      The greatest example we could have now would be clarified when DELL releases its first Windows 8 laptops and dektops. Dell have a partnership with Canonical. So let’s see how they will react to this EFI crap!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

        If the way Dell handled Ubuntu on their website in the past is any indication, they won’t give a crap about Ubuntu once Windows 8 lands. I’m surprised their partnership wasn’t terminated already, TBH.

        I tried finding the page(s) again on Dell’s website, but it seems they don’t even offer Ubuntu anymore.

        • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

          No Dell does not offer Ubuntu Desktop or Laptop! They have a partnership for Servers. See the hardware certification page by Canonical.
          A recent study (I ll try to find a digital copy of it soon) shows that in the educational field, in the next decade a rise of Linux use as an OS should happen and MS Windows use would drop! Manufacturers would be obliged to to offer customers the ability to install any OS they want. I am talking about Europe and Asia. In US, things may get ugly as MS is one of the key government corrupters.

          Besides, Red Hat for example won’t allow such crap from MS. Believe me.

          Still, engineers in Dell still take in consideration Ubuntu linux while designing some of their products. as I said mainly servers and few desktops and laptops.

          Recently in Europe, MS was forced to let the end user choose his/her web browser of choice. Same thing is going to happen for the OS. It is inevitable.

          I do agree that Dell doesn’t give a damn crap about Ubuntu as long as they are financially happy with MS. They will do in the next years. 
          Example: Check what ‘s happening now to the cloud.

        • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

          No Dell does not offer Ubuntu Desktop or Laptop! They have a partnership for Servers. See the hardware certification page by Canonical.
          A recent study (I ll try to find a digital copy of it soon) shows that in the educational field, in the next decade a rise of Linux use as an OS should happen and MS Windows use would drop! Manufacturers would be obliged to to offer customers the ability to install any OS they want. I am talking about Europe and Asia. In US, things may get ugly as MS is one of the key government corrupters.

          Besides, Red Hat for example won’t allow such crap from MS. Believe me.

          Still, engineers in Dell still take in consideration Ubuntu linux while designing some of their products. as I said mainly servers and few desktops and laptops.

          Recently in Europe, MS was forced to let the end user choose his/her web browser of choice. Same thing is going to happen for the OS. It is inevitable.

          I do agree that Dell doesn’t give a damn crap about Ubuntu as long as they are financially happy with MS. They will do in the next years. 
          Example: Check what ‘s happening now to the cloud.

        • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

          No Dell does not offer Ubuntu Desktop or Laptop! They have a partnership for Servers. See the hardware certification page by Canonical.
          A recent study (I ll try to find a digital copy of it soon) shows that in the educational field, in the next decade a rise of Linux use as an OS should happen and MS Windows use would drop! Manufacturers would be obliged to to offer customers the ability to install any OS they want. I am talking about Europe and Asia. In US, things may get ugly as MS is one of the key government corrupters.
          Besides, Red Hat for example won’t allow such crap from MS. Believe me.
          Still, engineers in Dell still take in consideration Ubuntu linux while designing some of their products. as I said mainly servers and few desktops and laptops.
          Recently in Europe, MS was forced to let the end user choose his/her web browser of choice. Same thing is going to happen for the OS. It is inevitable.
          I do agree that Dell doesn’t give a damn crap about Ubuntu as long as they are financially happy with MS. They will do in the next years. 
          Example: Check what ‘s happening now to the cloud.

  • http://profiles.google.com/ladnarlee7 Randall Sanders Sr

    Well coming from an old silver geek…if this comes about it will be a cold day in hell before I will buy one. VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLAR! HIT EVIL CORPTOCRACIES WHERE IT WILL HURT!!!!!

  • http://profiles.google.com/ladnarlee7 Randall Sanders Sr

    To hell with all of it. What does Jeremiah Johnson need with any of it?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RTXTG5TGZ3NLPF5ISVMB3OYOVU Jeff Burns

    This could actually backfire on MS in so many ways.    One thing that could happen is a locked Linux or Android distro on the device.  No chance of someone experimenting with Win8 for dual boot at that point.   :)  Since Android owns most of the ARM space now, it *should* be harder for MS to pull this….

    This is such pseudo-security though.  It’ll get cracked by the baddies in nothing flat, so the only people that get affected by it are law abiding citizens.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      And cracked hardware security is particularly painful. It’s not like you can just roll out a patch to fix that.

  • Anonymous

    These things…will be jail broken anyway lol they did it for PS/Xbox ..etc the worry is that normal users wont bother..unless its easy.

  • Brendan William

    There always updating the BIOS to a version that supports disabling Secure Boot and Micro$oft can’t choose what is in the BIOS the maker of the motherboard only can.

  • http://openid-provider.appspot.com/TheMerkinman Merk

    I’m fine with this, it’ll get Linux distos to actually make deals to have hardware come with it preinstalled rather than relying on a person to install it afterwards.

    • Jonathan Wong

      Those deals aren’t easy to make as it would seem.  I suspect that companies have deals with Microsoft to run only Windows on their computers and never any competing OSes that come with hardware.

  • Shawn White

    Extra trivia-Gates is also a large shareholder in Monsanto and therefore also a contributor to xE security (formerly Blackwater security)

  • Oleksandr Pylkevych

    Fair competition? No, never heard 

  • Ziv Leyes

    I find this very simple, if I’m concerned about a device that doesn’t allow me to chose which OS I install on it, I will simply NOT buy the darn device!

    I suggest everybody else to do the same

    • Anonymous

      Any serious OEM needs to ship with the familiar OS, and Microsoft won’t let them ship an unlocked device.
      The alternative will be crappy hardware at crappy prices, such as that of those exsiting Ubuntu preloaded PCs.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

        I think one of the main reasons Ubuntu hasn’t taken off yet is that there is no decent hardware that comes pre-loaded with it. Either the specs/level of support aren’t there, or the thing it comes on just looks ugly. Alternatively, the manufacturer offering it may not even take it seriously (I’m looking at you, Dell).

        As much as I hate to admit it, we need something like the Apple of Ubuntu computers. We need a company to offer well-designed, sleek hardware with a dedication to Ubuntu support. People want a visually impressive machine where they don’t need to troubleshoot trivial things on their own. Ubuntu has ease-of-use down pat by now, but if it really wants to succeed then I think we need to start thinking as a community beyond the OS itself.

        • Anonymous

          People have a great amount of inertia, and would continue to buy the familiar Windows OS over Ubuntu. If Windows 8 catches on on the desktop (it will since it’s the only option for OEMs), then users wanting familiarity will use it on tablets and phones, leading to a decline of Android and user choice. 

          Apple’s software was never the competitor to open technologies; it only runs on Apple hardware and is profitable even with low market share.

          The main problem is Microsoft, and there is a huge risk that they will use their monopoly over desktop OEMs to wipe out Android.

    • Anonymous

      I would love to have such strong ideals that I could buy a laptop without supporting Microsoft. However, I looked around at what was possible to buy in Norway, and there was only one (1) manufacturer of laptops that sold laptops without Windows on it, and their hardware just wasn’t worth the investment. So I ended up paying the Windows tax even though I just remove the software, because otherwise I might as well not buy any hardware.

      What I’m trying to say is, you can go ahead and think that it’s simple and you’ll just refrain from buying those devices, but what will you do when all viable options have UEFI locked to Windows? The right thing to do here, in order to even be able to buy hardware that runs Linux, is to protest this, make yourself heard, call your representative and put an end to the monopolism.

      • Ziv Leyes

        monopolism is possible only thanks to us, the consumers, what would happen if nobody buys a laptop? would laptops still being manufactured? 

        Let’s take a more real example, why did Microsoft drop the “Zune” project? Because it was a fiasco.
        As long as you don’t hurt them in the pocket, nothing will change

  • Anonymous

    Microsoft must be stopped. We cannot let them do this. Many people will want to run other OSs on ARM devices. This is just another way of monopolizing the market.

    • Braxton Bragg

      You say they are monopolizing the market, but Microsoft most certainly isn’t a monopoly holder in the arm market. Android has the highest market share, with iOS right behind. Likely this is simply a protection if Microsoft sells subsidized hardware so that people don’t buy Win8 tablets at a lesser price and then put android on it.

      • Anonymous

        There will be ARM based pcs as well. I know you can’t install, say iOS on a Galaxy S2, or WP7 on an iPhone etc.

        But pcs are different. Pcs aren’t very tied to the OS as mobile devices are. If I buy an ARM based PC, I want the feeedim to install anything I want on it. I would live if phones and tablets had that freedom as well.

  • Ruben Bakker

    Updated the Windows 8 Wikipedia page with this. Patiently waiting for it to be removed.

    • Jonathan Wong

      Then add it back!  The world should know the truth!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      10 hours later and it looks like it’s still there. Hoping it will stay.

    • Glaasje

      It is still there… :P

    • Wei En

       Added more info (proof of tht) on the Windows 8 Wikipedia page.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GGIRZFUVXLL6BY776OGGKINM7Q Cynthia

    The possibility of booting to another operating system has always been a security hole for Windows.  I can boot any Windows machine with Linux, and erase protected files and steal passwords.

    • Jonathan Wong

      That may be true but I doubt that is the only intention.  I’m sure another intention of this is to prevent users from running other OSes and that the notion of a secure boot is partly just to hide that fact as well

    • Anonymous

      Physical access to the hardware is not something that an OS should be trying to protect, if you do you’ll be left with a broken system trying to do stuff that it is not supposed to be doing. Windows is already broken in other matters trying to have that kind of protection. You don’t really need reboot a Windows machine to do that,  the viruses that changed MBR were able to do so by just running code within Windows, secure boot is not a way to protect a PC from viruses the safest way is to keep usage of Windows low. I have a Windows installation aged 2years+ in top condition which I boot like every other week for something, it runs perfectly without any antiviruses, I have friends who can’t keep from formatting their HDDs every 6months at best

  • Andrew Polidori

    Windows 8 is gross anyway. I hope it’s a huge flop which may give manufacturers reason to open up to other operating systems.

  • Michael Cobb

    Urghh!! Why doesn’t Microsoft just go and die!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TOAP2YXEUL6HBNSCRICYVVMKSY Teg

    Microsoft never changes and is as slimy as a company now as they were 10+ years ago.

    This is scary because whenever a new technology hits, these big companies like Microsoft and Apple see an opportunity to lock out the competition before they get a chance. Microsoft has done this in the past with Windows, Office, Internet Explorer, and recently with Windows Phone by attacking Android. Some of you may remember that Microsoft had tried to cripple Java and Quicktime in early Windows versions and was unsuccessful in that.

    They are afraid that if Linux gets a chance to be successful early on ARM devices, they will be behind in marketshare like they are currently with Windows Phone. Their tens of thousands of employees and shareholders would fight tooth and nail to keep Windows relevant as consumers are moving away from traditional computers and moving to mobile and tablet devices. Not only that, they fear services like Google Docs and Zoho because they cut into Office sales.

    The reality is that Microsoft makes the majority of its money on licences of  Windows and Office and if those markets are depreciated, their company is in danger. Competition is a good thing, but locking them out is not the way to go.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      MS has Xbox to fall back on. Maybe they should just become a gaming company like Nintendo.

  • william.holtam

    THIS SHALL NOT STAND!!!!!!

    ______________________________________________________

  • http://twitter.com/zc456 Squeaks

    And this is why part of me will always dislike MS, even if they are lesser of the two evils at present.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GE4EYP3QOQ246PLG2Y2DOD2NIQ Dr. Fly

      I always said that I hate Apple more than MS, because until Secure Boot the latter only made me annoyed. It’s like they’re competing for the position of my most disliked company (besides Facebook…which is comparing apples to oranges, but they’re pretty evil too).

  • Yogotiss .

    For every action there is an equal and/or opposite reaction! Part of the Law of Equivalent Exchange! LOL

  • paul sutton

    Linux is already on ARM,  it will be on Raspbery PI devices, if, regardless of what distro we like, we can get behind that, promote and support it and users (esp schools and younger members) we CAN make a difference,

  • Alex Robinson

    Looks like it’s going to be harder than I thought to get a well powered ARM tablet to run Debian on. But Windows 8 on a tablet doesn’t make sense to me. Metro looks nice, but there is no legacy compatibility and you still have all the weaknesses of Windows. The argument that Windows has the most applications for it will not be true for ARM devices. That is kind of Windows’s biggest selling point; the large software library, so this should be interesting.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZYDGZQI7Z4D4XK2Q23O67ROSMQ Doc

    Microsoft really makes me sick. I hope they rot in hell.

    • Anonymous

      You’re not alone..

  • Anonymous

    I think it is a good thing.  It will stop users wiping their linux based machines and putting windows on them.

  • Zombifier

    Not surprised. That’s Microsoft.

  • Anonymous

    Well time to jailbreak Ultrabooks.

  • Braxton Bragg
  • Anonymous

    Here we go again.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AUQBGFZGRPEFNS373ZJEVXL37A John

    Microsoft are so petty…

  • Sven Romeike

    Dr. Ian Malcolm:  ”…. And if we could only step aside and trust in nature, life will find a way.” (Jurassic Park)

    same goes for Linux :D

  • http://twitter.com/mashengky Hengky Kusuma

    no worries, if I have to use windows 8, i’d just buy a new laptop. that’s it.

  • Anonymous

    Thats why i’m glad i dont have windows anymore !!
    And i’m happy !

  • matt L

     Remember United States v. Microsoft? I’m not a lawyer, but in their final judgment, Microsoft was ordered to, among other things:

    C. Microsoft shall not restrict by agreement any OEM licensee from exercising any of the
    following options or alternatives:
    [...]

    Offering users the option of launching other Operating Systems from the Basic
    Input/Output System or a non-Microsoft boot-loader or similar program that
    launches prior to the start of the Windows Operating System Product.

    http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f200400/200457.htm

    For some reason, I don’t think directly violating an order by the federal government issued LAST time they were engaging in monopolistic practices is going to go over well.

  • Brian Oswald

    Are we surprised? This has been Microsoft’s business model for years: If you can’t beat ‘em, steal the idea and/or monopolize the market. They must have finally gotten the memo about the lack of consumer interest in Windows tablets. A free OS that offers similar functionality, capability of running on cheaper hardware AND having a decent UI doesn’t put money in their pockets.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, the wording is quite ambiguous; “must not be possible” could mean that it “must be impossible” or “doesn’t have to be possible”. Of course, both interpretations are bad, but one is quite a lot worse than the other.

  • Anonymous

    This is an issue for Android users, too, which I’d say take up a much larger amount of the population. We can’t allow a whole range of hardware to be inaccessible to us. Of course, we can always buy Linux tablets/ARM laptops that don’t take absurd measures like this.

    I’m always shocked to see just how obviously contradictory some companies can be with their ideologies. We need smartphones and tablets to be as open as PCs. It seems like everyone’s turning into Apple, these days.

  • Jorge Alves

    somehow expectable: the agreement between m$ and nokia led to the end of meego. dispite the birth of tisen, the future is uncertain. does really anyone expect that hardware with the samsung label to be shipped with m$’s software by default? samsung will have to face a real problem though: is android platform the future? is android enough for arm based tablets, netbooks and laptops? or will cloud based os’s emerge? this wish from m$, because is nothing more than that, will have the real answer from their real competitor: google. does anyone expect google to allow that, more than android, chrome os to be left outside the arm platform? is google going to produce hardware? linux is the heart of arm platform, either with chrome, android, gtk, qt, or any other toolkit out there. almost every embedded arm device has linux at his core, so i can only expect to a even brighter future. and ubuntu will be there, side by side with many other great distros. but do never forget: googles’ revenues derive from advertisement, and to accurately advertise, google needs to know who we are, what we like, what we search. but on this battle, opensource comunity will have to stand by them.

    • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

      That’s definitely true.

  • https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip ActionParsnip

    Couldn’t a key just be hacked using something similar to folding at home….? Or am I thinking crazy…

  • CJ Laing

    I’m confused, Why is Microsoft being the only company to have anger roused against it for this decision.. It’s the same with most ARM phones and Tablet’s now with their Secure Bootloaders and such. iPod/iPhone/iPad are ARM devices and they actively attempt to prevent linux (or any other alternative OS for that matter.). All I’m saying is that this article is incorrect if it points just at MS.

    • Anonymous

      ipod/iphone/ipad are not unique in the markets they compete in.  I can buy Sansa/Samsung/Toshiba and have the same item MP3 player/cell phone/tablet.

    • http://twitter.com/Azthma Azthma

      arguing about Apple is useless.  

      • CJ Laing

        You are missing the point of my comment. I wasn’t arguing about Apple, I was simply using them as an example for an ARM system that has the same “security” restrictions that Microsoft is proposing for the manufacturers hardware.

  • Jorge Alves

    and is the same reason why sony removed optional os intall on ps3 boxes.  and yet… since when, and in each country in the world is dumping legal? corporations can’t sell below cost price. tey only do it when there is no one to complaining about.

  • Braxton Bragg

    You need help if you feel that strongly about a software company.

  • Thomas Rand

    micwrong $hafted will continue to force themselves onto everything tech & when that begins to falter they climb up the food chain to the manufacturers & demand the produce hardware their way or they pull out !

    If i was at ARM i would send a vid clip of my arse with the comment
    YOU DO NOT OWN USE, KISS THIS & I MAY RECONSIDER

  • http://twitter.com/reivanen kim reivanen

    I think that in EU Ubuntu should sue Microsoft for anticompetitive business model. It has been done successfully before, for issues much much smaller than this in scope.

    That is just absolutely horrible from Microsoft and helps to strip down the last bit of respect i have for them for managing to produce a successful Windows7.

    Shame on you.

  • http://twitter.com/ZacharyJuang Zachary Juang

    This is seriously screwed up.

  • paolino turone

    Perhaps this is a good opportunity for Canonical to get their finger out and get in bed with a manufacturer, and start producing Ubuntu to the domestic mainstream market. Most people will not even care about MS demands because most people unfortunately use Windows. The trick is to show people the benefits of Linux and make it less scary for those new to it. MS has again drawn a line, it is up to those who can to step over the line and kick MS right in the balls!

  • Виталий Камелин

    I will take revenge. I will use pirate version of Win 8. And no one can bring me to justice.

  • Roopak Karulkar

    Microsoft can’t compete wit linux, so they play dirty.  Even they know how windows is compared to Linux, or any other OS for that matter.

  • Anonymous

    This will be jail broken the sameway as other devices got pwnd, but consumers wont go on trying linux as they are now, BUT what percentage of people who buy those tablet stuff try Linux on those? IF this migrates to x86 there will be a big problem and there wont be, there are too much vendors MS needs to keep in touch with for x86 and there are alot of x86 products that just ship machines with nothing installed(I’m from Sri Lanka and we have loads of them, but they dont have the newest hardware though). IMHO win8 wont even start on x86/x86_64, not because of linux, its because of win7 no one wants to upgrade, and a bigger share is stuck on XP ..

  • https://launchpad.net/~jgjones JGJones

    I guess Microsoft is doing this because they know that with ARM based PC’s – Linux does have one big advantage over Windows for a change:

    With open source tools such as LibreOffice and many other applications, Ubuntu would just work the same as it does on x86. All software would work as it does on x86 as they can be fairly easily recomplied for ARM. 

    For Windows with many closed source x86 applications, they’ll move much slower and thus give Linux an advantage.

    After all…on x86 “why get Linux when I can get anything I wish with Windows”. On ARM…this isn’t true and Microsoft know this so it’s in their interest to prevent Linux getting any sort of foothold.

  • http://twitter.com/pst007x Paolino Turone

    More companies are manufacturing Ubuntu machines, so screw them! MS is the bully in the playground, time to kick em where it hurts! lol

  • http://profiles.google.com/ladnarlee7 Randall Sanders Sr

    Those old fashioned book burnings? I can smell ARM’s burning in large piles on the doorsteps of Microsoft corporate if this happens!!!!!!

  • http://alaukik.myopenid.com/ Alaukik

    >An open letter to Steve Ballmer and his Microsoft Gang:

    I am quite sure they will read this on OMGU !

  • Anonymous

    correction: “ultrabook burnings” … hence ultra-burning ;P

  • Alex Robinson

    Now I wish ultrabooks were called uberbooks. UBER-BURNING FTW.

 
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