Mark Shuttleworth responds to the window button issue; hints at good things to come

By , Published March 16, 2010

The repositioning of window button controls in Ubuntu 10.04 has undoubtedly been one of the most 'controversial' decisions taken by the OS team period.

They change can seem both trivial – they are just window buttons after all – and important at the same time (e.g. €œmy Nan uses Ubuntu, this will confuse her€).

The flames against the change have largely been fanned from the lack of clarity surrounding the issue; people are more inclined to be rational when rationale is provided.

Ivanka Majic, head of the Ubuntu design team, offered some insights into the discussion that led to the change early last week but, again, this didn't answer everyone’s questions. Her post highlighted to me the fact that there is no clear cut 'this is why' answer to be easily given.

SABDFL himself Mark Shuttleworth provided his insights into the issue earlier this evening when responded to the 'bug' report on this issue. Not only does he help reassure users, he drops a massive imagination-baiting clue as to the benefits left-hand controls will bring to Ubuntu 10.10€¦

The default position of the window controls will remain the left,
throughout beta1. We’re interested in data which could influence the
ultimate decision. There are good reasons both for the change, and
against them, and ultimately the position will be decided based on what
we want to achieve over time.

Moving everything to the left opens up the space on the right nicely,
and I would like to experiment in 10.10 with some innovative options
there. It’s much easier to do that if we make this change now. I
appreciate that it’s an emotive subject, and apologise for the fact that
I haven’t been responding in detail to every comment – I’m busy moving
house this week. But the design team is well aware of the controversy,
your (polite) comments and more importantly *data* are very welcome and
will help make the best decision.

When we have a celebrity bug report like this, it’s a real exercise for
our values of communication, civility, and ubuntu. Thank you to those
who have pointed to the code of conduct when things get heated. And
thanks even more to those who FELT heated but didn’t let it show :-)

Mark

Intriguing

I for one am incredibly excited by the thought of the right-hand space being utilized for something more meaningful than the usual window-fare of a menu button that no-one uses. In i was pretty stoked to see said 'menu button' nuked off the Lucid window borders €“ now knowing there is a deeper reasoning behind it is, well, mouth wateringly cool.

Oh, Ubuntu how i love thee€¦

Article originally appeared on omgubuntu.co.uk

Related posts:

  1. Easy GUI Window Button Switcher for Lucid (and Karmic) users
  2. PiTiVi Creator Responds To Readers Fears…
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  • Anonymous

    ufff so good

  • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

    I really hope he has something absolutely wonderful up his sleeve for 10.10.

    • Mohan

      Yep, damn we have to wait for 5 to 6 months to find out…sign!

      • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

        well we may find out during the next UDS. or during alpha of 10.10

        • Mohan

          That’s true.

    • http://orkutcidio.deliriocoletivo.org Peterson Espaçoporto

      Otherwise it will be an awful, gigantic, epic deception.

      • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

        And that might prompt me (and others) to move to a new OS. <.<

        • Anonymous

          Really? You would move just because of button positioning?

        • Anonymous

          Really? You would move just because of button positioning?

          • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

            Not button position. I would leave if the SABDFL fails to follow through. And thats just a maybe…. I doubt i would, but there are purists that would im sure.

          • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

            Not button position. I would leave if the SABDFL fails to follow through. And thats just a maybe…. I doubt i would, but there are purists that would im sure.

  • Anonymous

    Best part about this response:

    “your (polite) comments and more importantly *data* are very welcome and
    will help make the best decision.”

    This is exactly what we need here: a data-driven decision rather than a whole bunch of people being like ‘do. not. want.’ or ‘this r0xor2!1!!11″

    Unfortunately, I haven’t seen much real data (or analysis) yet. Which isn’t to say the Ubuntu design team isn’t doing it, just that there’s a lot of emotional noise about this.

    I say ‘bring on the data’.

  • https://login.launchpad.net/+id/WhpnWB3 dael99

    what about a window pin? (to stick the current window on top)

  • http://all-tech-thoughts.blogspot.com/ CMD

    it needs to stay on the right, otherwise new users (switching from Windows) will find it harder to adapt and other users will too, like an 80+ yr old couple i got using Ubuntu. I’ll get the call, i’ll have to explain.

    • Jon

      Then, please, explain. I, personally, find all the complaining about having to get used to something new or people having to go through the monumental task of explaining how the close button moved to the left to be so annoying, so, please, if I get out of hand, I don’t intend it.

      Now, that said, why is it so hard? Yes, as someone else in the comments has pointed out, it’s something of practice vs. the art team’s logic (which, I will not assume may be YOUR logic). So, taking into account ONLY the practice (because I don’t wholly agree with the logic either), you’re left with you being used to having them on the right on Windows and older distributions… Why then, when people make the transition from Windows to Mac do you not bemoan the complexity of that monumental task? Should we petition Apple to move their controls to the right for sheer uniformity?

      If you’ll allow me to say, you, sir, (CMD, who I am replying to) are being severely pessimistic. You’re making an assumption that this couple, upon clicking in an empty area, will not perceive that the action they wanted hasn’t happened and then won’t bother to look anywhere else at all? Let’s say they do. Fine. Are you so jaded that helping out your fellow humans is that much of a pain? It can be annoying at times, but you’re doing them a service by giving them five minutes to explain what is going on. And isn’t that the primary idea behind the OS that you’ve adapted them to? (As M. Shuttleworth has so eloquently pointed out.)

      Give it a chance, please. If nothing else, at least consider all the thought they’ve put into this, all the hard work that’s been done. I was skeptical, but I’ve gotten used to it (in fact, I was shocked about the purple icons until I saw them in action where they really seem to fit [that wallpaper still has no excuse, though ;)])

      Thank-you to all of you who have read my thoughts and given me equal opportunity and say here, I hope I have been able to help some of you give these things one more chance. (And sorry for my confusing dictation of my thoughts, I actually think this pattern!)

      P.S. And by give it a chance, I ask that you at least ATTEMPT to use them for a time, WITHOUT thinking of how better placed they are to the right, or how easy it would be on the right, or even where you like them, that will only serve to heat yourselves up further. You can’t give something that deeply ingrained a week and say it’s complete rubbish that quickly, the controls have grown on me and I’m still not 100% used to it. If you’ve already done this, I applaud you and welcome any insights you may have, but, if you are complaining about change because it is change, please, we’ve heard it all before.

      P.P.S. I do apologize to you CMD, this isn’t directed at you. (Except where mentioned) You’re faithlessness in the perception of that couple, coupled with that overwhelming… juvenile reaction that the community has taken has boiled to a head for me. I hope you, or any of the posters here, will not take this as a personal attack.

    • Jon

      Then, please, explain. I, personally, find all the complaining about having to get used to something new or people having to go through the monumental task of explaining how the close button moved to the left to be so annoying, so, please, if I get out of hand, I don’t intend it.

      Now, that said, why is it so hard? Yes, as someone else in the comments has pointed out, it’s something of practice vs. the art team’s logic (which, I will not assume may be YOUR logic). So, taking into account ONLY the practice (because I don’t wholly agree with the logic either), you’re left with you being used to having them on the right on Windows and older distributions… Why then, when people make the transition from Windows to Mac do you not bemoan the complexity of that monumental task? Should we petition Apple to move their controls to the right for sheer uniformity?

      If you’ll allow me to say, you, sir, (CMD, who I am replying to) are being severely pessimistic. You’re making an assumption that this couple, upon clicking in an empty area, will not perceive that the action they wanted hasn’t happened and then won’t bother to look anywhere else at all? Let’s say they do. Fine. Are you so jaded that helping out your fellow humans is that much of a pain? It can be annoying at times, but you’re doing them a service by giving them five minutes to explain what is going on. And isn’t that the primary idea behind the OS that you’ve adapted them to? (As M. Shuttleworth has so eloquently pointed out.)

      Give it a chance, please. If nothing else, at least consider all the thought they’ve put into this, all the hard work that’s been done. I was skeptical, but I’ve gotten used to it (in fact, I was shocked about the purple icons until I saw them in action where they really seem to fit [that wallpaper still has no excuse, though ;)])

      Thank-you to all of you who have read my thoughts and given me equal opportunity and say here, I hope I have been able to help some of you give these things one more chance. (And sorry for my confusing dictation of my thoughts, I actually think this pattern!)

      P.S. And by give it a chance, I ask that you at least ATTEMPT to use them for a time, WITHOUT thinking of how better placed they are to the right, or how easy it would be on the right, or even where you like them, that will only serve to heat yourselves up further. You can’t give something that deeply ingrained a week and say it’s complete rubbish that quickly, the controls have grown on me and I’m still not 100% used to it. If you’ve already done this, I applaud you and welcome any insights you may have, but, if you are complaining about change because it is change, please, we’ve heard it all before.

      P.P.S. I do apologize to you CMD, this isn’t directed at you. (Except where mentioned) You’re faithlessness in the perception of that couple, coupled with that overwhelming… juvenile reaction that the community has taken has boiled to a head for me. I hope you, or any of the posters here, will not take this as a personal attack.

  • brandon

    There better be a good reason why they couldn’t use the space on the left rather than the right.

  • Anonymous

    actually after all it make sense i mean the change and i get into it
    and if we look into it deeply the logical and the good practice is to be on the left but we all use the right now so it is practice against logic but after all it is okey with me now

  • Anonymous

    I wonder what’s wrong with the left side if they wish to use the right side for something else.

  • http://www.middlerun.net/ Middlerun

    Couldn’t these “innovative options” just as easily go on the left, in the space that’s nicely opened up by leaving the window controls alone?

    • Anonymous

      ooh. or perhaps some window tiling options?

    • http://twitter.com/Sephiroth_VII Sephiroth_VII

      Not if he needs more space than the titlebar can provide.

  • Anonymous

    I noticed the mouseway is shorter with left. Change it is easy. It’s looking good. Place is opened for new features in the future. mhh … for me the bug is closed since yesterday! … no more talks about … let’s go home and be with the family – the work is over. ,)

  • Anonymous

    I know what Mark is planning to do with the right-hand space, he’s going to put a set of windows buttons there, as well as the ones on the left, lol. (joke)

    I’m sure all will be revealed in due course as to what is happening and I look forward to seeing the end result, as perhaps a fanatical Ubuntu user I think that changes like this can only enhance end user experience.

  • http://jlmolero.blogspot.com/ José Luis

    Fuck, I don’t like to have idols… but Mark Shuttleworth is near to be that. Was a nice answer

  • http://www.geniuslife.wordpress.com/ Júlio

    O___o
    Something new there?

    That’s amazing.

    I can’t believe ¬___¬

  • Peter

    You can put the buttons on the right in any Ubuntu. Alt+F2. Type “gconf-editor” and press Run. apps>metacity>general. Change “button_layout” to:

    minimize,maximize,close:menu

    Done.

    • Peter

      And likewise, in 10.10, you’ll be able to switch it back to the right this way by setting this option to:

      menu:minimize,maximize,close

  • TenLeftFingers

    I think these could be related: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1430684

  • James

    I doubt this will amount to much. C’mon we all know Red Hat do all the real work.

    • http://orkutcidio.deliriocoletivo.org Peterson Espaçoporto

      haha yeah, for like, KVM and kernel. Not directly noob’s concern.

    • Anonymous

      Methinks you’re chatting cack!

    • Anonymous

      Methinks you’re chatting cack!

  • Anonymous

    That didn’t clarify shit.

  • Anonymous

    One thing I have noticed after using the left hand controls is that it makes every window look much cleaner. On most applications, all of the menus are on the left, so by placing the window buttons on the left too, it leaves the right side of the window much cleaner looking I find. Especially on the new themes where the menu and title bar blend together.

    • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

      In my opinion, it leave the window a little imbalanced. It seems as if it might tip over at anytime.

      • Anonymous

        One thing I do like is there is a big area open to grab and drag around.

      • Anonymous

        One thing I do like is there is a big area open to grab and drag around.

    • http://www.twitter.com/LoverBoyV LoverBoyV

      In my opinion, it leave the window a little imbalanced. It seems as if it might tip over at anytime.

  • Anonymous

    One thing I have noticed after using the left hand controls is that it makes every window look much cleaner. On most applications, all of the menus are on the left, so by placing the window buttons on the left too, it leaves the right side of the window much cleaner looking I find. Especially on the new themes where the menu and title bar blend together.

  • Mraz

    Doesnt he mean innovative as in the social network applet? Thats what i originally thought. If you maximize your window you can notice the buttons are extremely close to the applet and maybe it has something to do with it. Although if on the left side you have the applications menu, anyway thats what came to mind specially with the “update your twitter/facebook” etc… approach.

  • Mraz

    Doesnt he mean innovative as in the social network applet? Thats what i originally thought. If you maximize your window you can notice the buttons are extremely close to the applet and maybe it has something to do with it. Although if on the left side you have the applications menu, anyway thats what came to mind specially with the “update your twitter/facebook” etc… approach.

  • http://seifsallam.co.cc/ Seif Sallam

    i didn’t switch to lucid yet, but i moved my buttons the same way, and i find it works very good for me. the only problem is that Chrome/ium controls positioned on the right, that something the chromium team should fix.

  • Anonymous

    BS!

    They can put whatever they want on the right on the left side of the window ¬¬

    I really think this will hinder ubuntu adoption

    • Anonymous

      It’s hard to say without knowing WHAT could be put on the right side.

    • Anonymous

      It’s hard to say without knowing WHAT could be put on the right side.

  • Anonymous

    BS!

    They can put whatever they want on the right on the left side of the window ¬¬

    I really think this will hinder ubuntu adoption

  • Luis

    I’ve always wanted to put my window controls on the bottom corners, is that even possible? I am being serious by the way, I think that would be great, if anyone knows if that’s possible let me know.

  • http://www.google.com/ Eric Case

    Speaking of buttons, anyone know where I can get humanity Icon Pack? That and many of the humanity icons (including the one for Banshee) have disappeared off Gnome Look. I’ve searched for quite awhile on Google, but appparently everyone just links to Gnome-Look and doesn’t have the file saved on their servers.

    This is a very nice non-distracting icon sets. It’d be nice if someone would make a complete package for this (minus the ugly orange ones).

  • John

    Whatever Mark has up his sleeve, an LTS release is not the best place to half-implement it. My parents use Ubuntu – I installed Dapper for them, then upgraded to Hardy. I will stick Lucid on and let them run it until 12.04 – so they will be stuck with a partially implemented feature for 2 years.

    I know I can (and will) just switch the buttons back for them but that is not the point.

  • John

    Whatever Mark has up his sleeve, an LTS release is not the best place to half-implement it. My parents use Ubuntu – I installed Dapper for them, then upgraded to Hardy. I will stick Lucid on and let them run it until 12.04 – so they will be stuck with a partially implemented feature for 2 years.

    I know I can (and will) just switch the buttons back for them but that is not the point.

    • Anonymous

      exactly

    • Anonymous

      You can’t really call it a half-implemented feature, it’s a fully implemented interface change which may or may not leave room for a completely unimplemented (and unknown) change in 6 months time. They’ve moved the window buttons to the left, it’s that simple – they might as well get used to it now instead of 2 years later?

      Personally I’d like to see them stay on the right, only because I don’t want to have retrain myself to use them, or my Mam – and I know my sister will pretty much rage when I update their machine. ;/

  • Jimbo

    I’ve generally supported all the choices to use incomplete features and software in the past, as I’ve seen the need for it to be given time to bed in before the next LTS (empathy being a prime example), but to move the window controls now just because in the LTS +1 you want to experiment with stuff in the right corner… I just don’t buy that as an argument.

    Your LTS is supposed to be your flagship product that people will want to run for multiple years. In a way your regular 6 month releases are all effectively beta releases for the LTS. So why potentially spoil the LTS in order to facilitate an experiment in what is effectively a beta release. It just doesn’t make sense.

    If the LTS release actually does its job right, and gives people a great OS that they will want to use for multiple years, then that means people won’t even see these new amazing right corner features for YEARS. Imagine explain that to someone…

    “In case you are wondering why the window controls are in the left, well its because 2 years from now you will be able to use new features in the right corner. Cool huh?”

    No. No its not.

  • Jimbo

    I’ve generally supported all the choices to use incomplete features and software in the past, as I’ve seen the need for it to be given time to bed in before the next LTS (empathy being a prime example), but to move the window controls now just because in the LTS +1 you want to experiment with stuff in the right corner… I just don’t buy that as an argument.

    Your LTS is supposed to be your flagship product that people will want to run for multiple years. In a way your regular 6 month releases are all effectively beta releases for the LTS. So why potentially spoil the LTS in order to facilitate an experiment in what is effectively a beta release. It just doesn’t make sense.

    If the LTS release actually does its job right, and gives people a great OS that they will want to use for multiple years, then that means people won’t even see these new amazing right corner features for YEARS. Imagine explain that to someone…

    “In case you are wondering why the window controls are in the left, well its because 2 years from now you will be able to use new features in the right corner. Cool huh?”

    No. No its not.

  • http://www.webupd8.org Andrew

    So how about starting giving credits to those who find the articles? You use to have a license that stated that no one could use anything from your blog without your permission, yet you post everything you find on other blogs without EVER giving credits. I can post a screenshot with my subscription to this bug with the last 50 replies. Would you care doing the same?

    • John

      I don’t pretend to speak for Joey, but are you suggesting that you are the only one who is subscribed to that bug report and saw the reply?

      • http://www.webupd8.org Andrew

        It’s not just this one, there are just too many posts without credits and I got tired.

      • http://www.webupd8.org Andrew

        Basically the last drop was when he posted this entire article: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/03/earth-on-carbon-fiber-automatically.html without a link back either to me or the author of the script, then the script author removed the script because he didn’t give credits (the script author can of course confirm this), Joey then removed the post and said some bad things about the author even though he was 100% right. If you were subscribed to the feed you remember that post.

        And speaking of wallpapers, most of the Quirky wallpaper posts were found on WebUpd8. Does any of those posts have a link back to us? Take a look:

        http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/10/lastfm-wallpaper-linux.html
        http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/09/real-earth-wallpaper-linux.html

        http://www.webupd8.org/2009/10/create-wallpaper-based-on-your-lastfm.html
        http://www.webupd8.org/2009/09/real-time-earth-wallpaper-for-linux.html

        What’s even more annoying is that because he does this, I get comments that I got the articles from OMG Ubuntu when I always post everything first (the exact time of the articles can be checked of course). So this has 2 repercussions which I’m not very comfortable with because it’s my work…!

        But I’ll stop now and never visit this blog, I’ll unsubscribe and he can get any articles from my blog, I don’t care anymore. You can read as many “original” posts on this blog as you want!

        • John

          I see.. I await d0od’s reply!

        • http://ubuntued.info/wallpaper-da-terra-sob-fibra-de-carbono Claudio Novais

          Yes, I can confirm, I’m the author of the earth’s script and I can confirm that he thinks he can do all he want.

          d00d, things that people (and many people really things that!) are not aware that the news don’t came from our mind but by the real people that did that research. The explanation for that is simple: he knows that this blog has many concurrent blogs and he will lose he do so many copy credits because most off all work is a summary of other blogs…

          But that’s ok, the blogosphere is not sleeping and the readers will know that this is wrong!

        • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ d0od

          I’ll happily post the e-mails AND the original post. In fact several people e-mailed us to say ‘well done’ for telling him to hop it.

          Three links and two sentences referring back to Claudio wasn’t enough “accreditation”, apparently.

    • http://www.trifunovic.me Nikola Trifunović

      Andrew, I agree with you ! I am completly on your side, but a long time ago, you use to copy other articles too! Joey it is very bad that you didn’t post link back :( He wrote it first !

      • http://www.webupd8.org Andrew

        Yes Nikola… when I started blogging I had no idea about such things but even so I always used a credits link pointing to the original article and I never claimed to be the original author. That was just one of the mistakes I made in blogging, I did many more, the biggest one being to start a blog on the Blogger platform in the first place but that’s another story.

        But people learn and change :)

        Just a note: I don’t care about this or any previous articles. I just want this to stop, that’s all.

    • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ d0od

      Without wanting to sound rude – your article is what, a paragraph long? Mine is a good whack. I’m pretty sure any basis for “copyright” theft stops there.

      Secondly, as other have pointed out, this was a post in a bug report – you didn’t interview SABDFL personally to get the quote. I could understand your accusation if you had… but many of us are subscribed to various bugs. As usual i was alerted to this response by one of OMG!’s newshounds. If i were so keen on “copying” your articles i’m pretty sure i wouldn’t have waited to post it 6 hours after yours.

      I also don’t have to point out that out of almost 1000 articles you’re throwing accusations based on 3. One of which is based on a quote made in PUBLIC and reported by various other news sites – not just your own.

      As for Claudio and his carbon wallpaper – i can repost the original post again. I’ll refrain from being rude, but after contacting me to post an article on his wallpaper (you’ll note there -he- contacted me asking if i would do it) he then decided that THREE links and two sentences referring back to back to him and his site wasn’t enough ‘accreditation’ – so we told him to hop it.

      The axe swings both ways. I could forward you plenty of e-mails people have sent me linking to your posts “magically” appearing within minutes of ours with no source either.

      • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ d0od

        I suppose the biggest laugh in all this is that I don’t actually read your blog…

      • mathi

        Well since andrew got banned by d0od, here is his reply: http://icehot.tumblr.com/post/452318629/omg

        Not allowing him to comment is… well, you know :)

        • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ d0od

          This isn’t a forum for playground slander, and this thread isn’t the right place for it.

          It’s also an insult to the hard work, dedication and effort our OMG! newshounds spend trailing bug reports, a slap in the face to the application developers who contact us personally to cover their applications and, above all else, a total kick in the gut for the sheer amount of MY free time I spend doing this site. There are no advert here, no-one gets paid. This site is run on passion and nothing else. The more people take pop-shots at us out of jealousy or misguided ego the less likely this site is to continue!

          I’ll leave it at this – the Ubuntu design team themselves, Canonical employees and a ton of awesome community members wouldn’t spend time visiting, commenting and loving this site if it was some 3rd rate rip off copy and pasting other people’s articles.

          I actually feel really upset. I -KNOW- how much time i put into this site, i -KNOW- where our news comes from… and yeah… for someone to happily diminish the hard work so many people put into this site is just hurtful. I don’t want to get all emotional but… seriously…

          Worse thing is i purposefully stopped reading Andrew’s blog so i couldn’t be accused of things like this. It’s not my fault if we both blog about something from gnome-look and that upsets him.

    • http://sloshy.livejournal.com/ Ryan Peters

      As much as I like your website, Andrew, it isn’t exactly fair looking for credit to something that anyone can just find out (lots of people found out just from Launchpad and not your site, actually, as did myself). Of course, I see nothing wrong with people linking to your blog saying “this person posted about this as well, check him out” just to be nice, but it’s as if more than one person was blogging about, say, a flood. You can’t claim copyright on a story, but you can claim copyright on your specific article, which I believe d0od didn’t violate.

      • http://sloshy.livejournal.com/ Ryan Peters

        By the way, I can see why you’re mad. Once someone took a remix of a remix I made (I just sped it up, actually) and totally claimed it as his; he didn’t even link back to the original people who made the other remixes! I think I eventually got his video pulled off the internet, but I understand how you feel. That still doesn’t change the fact that this is rather large news and that anyone can find it out without going to your blog though. Cheers, I hope d0od doesn’t copy anything from you in the future, and God bless :)

      • Mathi

        In a comment d0od deleted, Andrew said that it’s not just about that article but many more and gave examples. You can only read what he wants… not all the comments.

        • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ d0od

          He gave two examples.

  • Anonymous

    Exciting stuff!

  • Anonymous

    Ubuntu 10.04 is going to be stressing on the usability and the stability as it is a LTS release.

    I can already guess that Ubuntu 10.10 will be full of cutting-edge features. Wish I were 6 months on from now!!!! (Gnome Shell / New firefox / Cloud computing pushed to its limits / Hybrid systems like the Netbook Edition etc?)

    Still the 10.04 will be exiting as well, it is looking good for the moment. I am one the rare people exited by the buttons on the left. Love the rebranding, although am sad to see the brown go :) This will make me popular here lol

  • n-pigeon

    For me they can be on left I’m used to right but… I can live with it. If something cool will be going on in 10.10 then why not :)

  • notbad

    Has everybody forgotten that this is the LTS release? its not the right time to experiment. 10.04 must be as stable as it can be. I dont think that companies using Ubuntu will use an half unfinished release. they could release a very stable 10.04 with fixed old bugs and some new features. and they will have 3 years to experiment.

    • http://twitter.com/Frank_NL Frank van Klaveren

      What on earth has the placement of window buttons to do with stability?

      Lucid is becoming more stable every day now.

      • notbad

        the thing is that the placement is a part of other project witch I think won’t be in Lucid. and that makes it incomplete. I think Lucid must be finished without any bugs(like Nvidia driver reinstall after kernel update and many other bugs). It must be a finished product, not a part of an upcoming release!

        • http://twitter.com/Frank_NL Frank van Klaveren

          Again, explain me, what does the install of a grapics driver have to do with the placement of window buttons. Do you think the same team is working on every aspect of the release?

          Even if it’s part of an upcoming change, the placement of the buttons as it is now, is COMPLETE. It’s not that the placement is done half or three quarters. It’s complete.

        • Chris Lees

          notbad: You don’t need to reinstall the Nvidia driver after a kernel update, unless you installed that driver using the installer from http://www.nvidia.com. You shouldn’t do that; Ubuntu already provides a driver that stays in sync with the kernel. Need a later driver version? Use the PPAs, they stay in sync with the kernel too.

          If you want the manually-installed driver for some reason that I can’t fathom, then go and send a bug report to Nvidia for not staying in sync with the kernel. Tell Nvidia to make their installer use “dkms” – they’ll know what you’re talking about. Ubuntu provides the driver AND the infrastructure to keep third-party drivers working after a kernel update, it’s not Ubuntu’s fault if third-parties don’t use the infrastructure.

  • http://www.jedimoose.org/ mrben

    It will be interesting to see what they do with UNR – obviously it doesn’t suffer from the change, as it doesn’t use the default buttons (except on the odd dialogue box, but they usually have other buttons to handle those actions), but if they’re going to stick more stuff in the menu bar, where will that stuff go in UNR?

    • UbuntuFan

      what do you meen UNR doesnt use default buttons ?, yes it does if you have your window unmaximised then it uses metacity , yes the buttons are also on the left UNr uses a program called maximus (which you can set to not auto maximise) other than that and the go-home applet UNR is ubuntu with the launcher

  • http://twitter.com/joeally joeally

    No specifics. No concepts. Nothing. I was expecting more of an explanation, oh well

  • Adam

    Personally I think it looks much more clean how it is now. I don’t know what it is about it, but that’s just my opinion. People hate change. I mean, for years all I’ve seen is how bad Ubuntu looks, it was an “excrement-brown colored, jungle themed novelty toy”. Now that they changed it, some of the same people are moaning about the fact that they changed it. Purely because it was changed. That’s all. Oh no! It looks professional now. Oh no! They’ve cleaned it up so that it looks far more attractive. How awful!

    People sure are using a lot of “better be this” and “better be that” for something they are getting for free. Need a “good” reason, or justification for it? Fine. They make it. They make it for free. They make it for you. Justified. They’ll do what they want, and you’ll use it, or you won’t. No one is forcing you to use it.

    I for one, like the cleaner look of the buttons like this. And come on. It takes all of about 45 seconds IF that to get used to where they are now. A lot of people come from Macs too. I don’t remember seeing a lot of bitching about the buttons being on the right, from them. This isn’t hard, and it’s not rocket science.

    Everyone has their own opinion, and that is how it SHOULD be. And debate is great, and makes Ubuntu better, But, all this talk of “better have a reason” is insane. That’s like if I cook you dinner for free when you are starving, and all you do is say “You better make sure you do it this way or that”. You just don’t do that. It’s fine to not understand, even to not like something. But to act so immature about something you’re getting for free, is just childish. Grow up people.

  • TheNinthDegree

    I’m sorry, but there is absolutely NO Reason to have the buttons on the left. Its counter-intuitive to anything most PC users (Mac Users not included) have ever known. Even most of the Mac users I know, dont understand why the buttons are on the left side. It makes no sense. All it does is make it harder and counter-productive.

    • Adam

      Just curious, how it makes it less productive? It’s really not something that takes effort to do. I mean, not liking it is one thing, everyone has their own taste of course and that makes sense. But counter productive? I’ve hardly had a difficult time with it :/ Granted, that’s just me and maybe I adjust easy. I like it on the left, even coming from Windows and always having them on the right, but… It’s far from anything that makes using the OS any harder :/

      That almost seems as silly an excuse as justifying moving them with “We’ll do something on the right in the future”. Something like this is purely a taste thing, nothing more. There is ABSOLUTELY no advantage or disadvantage (save for purely liking or not liking the look of it) to putting them on the right or left, as far as proper use of space and resources is concerned. At least I can’t see one. Oh well :)

    • Anonymous

      No reason?

      I must admit I thought to myself exactly the same, as a ex windows user. Why bother? The balance is broken, there’s no chance we’ll get used to this mac proposal and etc. But you know what? I tried. Let’s try for a day or two to understand what they have in mind, to just see if there is anything behind this.

      It grew on me instantly. It took me one single day to adapt to having the control buttons on the left side. And it does actually feels better. Navigating with windows is faster than before, as the mouse pointer does most of it operations on the left side of windows – toolbar menus, navigation buttons in browsers, places bar in nautilus and evalution, even vlc and totem have their video control buttons on the left. How can you say this doesn’t feel intuitive? I could even be scientific and install some mouse tracker that records total mouse travel, but I already know and feel it’s much shorter and easier. Windows that are stacked beneath others, will allwas have the close button visible. Broken balance, you say? Nope, I haven’t noticed a thing. I’ll never go back.

      I agree very much with Adam – People are terrified of change, even when served to them for free. Where’s the gratitude? Go ahead, I challenge you. Be a bit bold and try something new, WITHOUT ever thinking how better it would be on the right side. There’s more of a feel than an adaption.

      And let’s not forget: Ubuntu is not Windows.

    • Chris Lees

      lol, spoken like a true Windows user.

      The Mac users don’t understand why their buttons are on the left side and not the right side? The Mac OS should have its window buttons on the right-hand side because everyone’s familiar with that, right?

      Wrong. Windows should have had its buttons on the left side, because at the time of Windows 1.0 the Macintosh already had them on the left side.

  • http://www.fewt.com/ Fewt

    This doesn’t explain anything. It just says that Mark doesn’t care about what his users want, he only cares about what he wants.

    Sounds like a spoiled rich kid to me.

    This poll indicates 3,000 people want them on the right:

    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/poll-do-you-want-ubuntu-window-controls.html

    This one, 775:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1422422

    How about the design team listens to users, puts the buttons back on the right, and experiments with the left side? After all, moving the buttons to the right really opens up the left side for experimentation.

    What a lame argument. :(

  • Anonymous

    The worst design decision ever. Why should I watch at the empty space on the left for 6 months?
    Or why should people watch for years with LTS.

  • http://olympusdigitalpen.blogspot.com/ dr. watson

    Yeah, those buttons are a problem – try closing a porn site while your wife is walking by reaching for a close button on the right hand side that just isn’t there :)

    • John

      Ctrl + W, or Alt + F4 ;)

      • http://olympusdigitalpen.blogspot.com/ dr. watson

        John, I know, but in panic mode reaching for control keys can be a even more difficult

  • Anonymous

    Holy shit there’s a lot of comments on this page, did OMG! UBUNTU! readers double over night?

  • xfrabbit

    People who move from Windows to Linux often don’t see just how similar the behavior and layouts are between the two. They only see the differences.

    As someone who had been a Mac used for 20+ years when I switched to Linux a couple years ago (and coincidentally had to switch to Windows at work at the same time), it’s easy to see how much alike window management on all of the top three Linux DEs and Windows is. The locations of all the functions, the keyboard commands, the concept of managing windows instead of managing apps (i.e. the lack of a unified menu bar/dock etc.), all of it caters to former Windows users.

    That’s a long way of saying: no wonder such a small change as the location of a couple buttons freaks everybody out! Most of you Linux users are either lifetime Linux or converts from Windows.

    Ubuntu is the real maverick distro. They throw a lot of ideas on the wall, and some of them fall, some of them stick. This window button thing is probably leading somewhere for a good reason. You can either enjoy the ride or just switch it back.

    As for Gran, mine switched from Windows to OSX last Fall and she got over the terror of where the buttons are in a couple days. You can too.

  • Anonymous

    Like d00d, I’m really looking forward to seeing what Canonical wants to add to the window chrome. BUT, as noted elsewhere, a full LTS release isn’t the place to drop half-implemented experimental features. There’s no reason why Canonical couldn’t keep the normal layout in the default theme for 10.04, and do their experimental work on a sidestream for 10.10.

    Having said that, window chrome is for victims, so I don’t particularly care. But I would like to see the mysterious “extra features” Mark is mooting. Open source software is so rarely experimental. It’s nice to see that something new is being considered.

  • http://sloshy.livejournal.com/ Ryan Peters

    Am I the only one that sees how they can’t exactly do much with the right side besides maybe moving the menu bar over or something? Is Metacity really that customizable by default as to allow something besides a shade/menu button? Of all the “innovative” things they could do with the right side, why couldn’t they do it with the left side? And I want something that is compatable with upstream, no less.

  • Anonymous

    Just use the easy gui window button switcher tool to switch to right if you don’t like left.

    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/easy-gui-window-button-switcher-for.html

  • Anonymous

    Am I the only one who doesn’t use the window buttons for anything? I’ve always got one hand on the keyboard ready with a ctrl-w. Am I actually as unique as my first-grade teachers told me?

  • manny

    maybe it has to do with some new concept in gnome-shell?

    i see so many new stuff for 10.10, Gshell and all

  • louis

    This change does not really affect me, the only thing I find wrong with this decision is that ubuntu users where not told about any of the changes which would happen, and had to find it out themselves from the alpha release :(
    –Louis Taylor–
    http://louistaylor.wordpress.com/

  • Christian

    I'll just use LinuxMint…they know how to treat a user…

  • Framli

    A drop down menu of zeitgeist's relevant files to the current activity.

  • qwerty8034

    I know that Suttleworth said that Ubuntu Lucid would be "as good, if not better" that OS X, but we haven't asked for ANOTHER MacOS!

    Having one bar at the top and one at the bottom was enough for me!
    Then, they came with a Dock. Ok, it's eye-candy, people like it, fine!
    Then, they came with round buttons with nothing written on it. I started to be septic.
    Then, they changed the button layout to the LEFT!!! That's too much!

    Now, it's clear that Shuttleworth don't want Ubuntu to be as good as Mac OS. He wnats it to be a MacOS for PCs!!!

    It it keeps going in this direction, I swich to KDE, prehaps even to another distribution!

  • Rolandixor

    I just hope GNOME Shell is seriously not default on 10.10… after all the work put into the current ubuntu desktop, to throw it all away for a piece of half baked experimental software makes 0 sense.

    Plus I hope they go with Compiz 0.9 (it it is out by then with the way things are going)…

    wait, I'm off topic… GNOME Shell on the mind. LOL…

    Yeah, i tried the new button positions and I must say I'm okay with them, until I need to use them. My muscle memory just screams NO!

    And honestly, if we are expecting ubuntu to take root this year, we can't make silly moves like this.

    If they plan to use the right side, why not just switch gears and use the left side the same way???

    And… again, in light of dangerous moves, NO GNOME Shell for 10.10 by default. It is a bad idea, VERY BAD. And after this move they don't need anymore BAD IDEAS.

  • Christopher

    This is cool. I'm not sure about changing the order of the 3 buttons, but now I'm really glad about the placement of the button group. They aren't just trying to be like OS X — instead, they're not afraid to innovate. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

    Wonder why they want more screen real estate on the right side, though. Seems like you could leave the buttons where they are, right-align the title text, and put this NEW 10.10 FEATURE on the left.

  • Jon

    Well, time for the rumours to commence!

  • Daniel Añez Scott

    We still don't have a good rationale for that… I'll just change my buttons to the right, and when there's something nice to put on the empty space that we'll have on the right corner, I'll accept that decision.

  • Kevin

    If they do something interesting with the right side in 10.10, I might consider using left-side buttons. Until then, I'm going to use the convenient script you posted about to put them on the right. I'm still too worried about accidentally closing the window while trying to use the menus.

  • Nathanel

    left hand side window buttons is the way to go…

    I do find it clears up space on the right for a more soothing visual experience rather than having a "button-full" GUI

    Despite that, I have always chaged it to the left throughout my previous OS experience (windows and linux).. never tried OS X until recently…

    It probably feel more natural to me I guess.

    How about you guys?

  • Taylor

    I agree, it'll definitely be very interesting to see what the right-hand side is used for. It's nice not to have somewhat redundant buttons on both sides…

    I really wonder what they'll use it for though. I have no idea. I'm looking forward to said innovative changes.

  • Christian Giordano

    It's a shame not everyone appreciated the fact that Mark doesn't want Ubuntu to be a cheaper version of Windows or MacOSX, collecting the safest features of the two. With unlimited resources, it would be great to develop different routes, of course. But changing the unthinkable remains a testament on how Mark is determined to innovate, and now is always the best moment to do it.

  • matti

    1. Moving the buttons around, makes no additional space, merely repositions the same space you already had. Therefore the argument is only about location, not space.

    2. The hordes of Windows users, yet to be converted, lose one more "familiar action". I'm converting adults. This is not trivial. Please return the buttons to where newbies expect them to be.

    3. The line of sight over any image forms an arch, starting from near top left and ending at near bottom right. It pretty much bypasses and ignores the contents in top right corner. Why not put the new stuff "up front" in line of sight, i.e. top left?

  • Genghis

    Interesting. Linux needs a Mark Shuttleworth, he has vision which Linux sorely needs.

    BTW: I do prefer the buttons on the left. I wouldn't mind a few changes to the colour and window title placement, but it will be refined over time.

    Just glad to see that it's moving. It important that it moves.

  • disastrophe

    I dunno. As I recent defector from winders I think it’s pretty darned silly how everybody is getting so worked up about a really, really trite issue. Crimony, if you don’t like where they are move ‘em for Pete’s sake. It’s really easy.

    I’ve used windoze since 3.0 and having the silly window buttons in a different place didn’t confuse me or put me off from Linux in the least. In fact it wasn’t a consideration at all. They’re just sily little buttons lol.
    In fact I love them on the left. If they move ‘em to the right I’ll move ‘em back to the left lol. I like it being different than windoze. I started using Linux because it is different than windoze, so I find any difference, no matter how small, comforting and soothing.
    I mean just how dumb do you think we are? That’s going to put more windoze users off than ANY configuration differences or learning requirements.
    We decided to give Linux a shot, and speaking for myself – my first concern was functionality (Ubuntu or Mint are the best in that regard.) They can do most anything windoze can but better and faster.
    Other reasons I switched were for security and stability. GUI differences are very minor details and I for one love them.
    Linux peeps worry too much about making ex-windoze users comfortable without knowing what that will entail. We’re not all idiots and incapable of learning. The majority of the windoze users Linux will attract are those who are fairly computer savvy. Those who are not would rarely consider changing anything anyway, they don’t even know what an OS is and so they don’t even understand the question in the first place. Linux will never attract a significant number of users from that category unless it becomes as mutated and lame as winders.
    Jeez, the stupid little buttons are just not that critical. Heck, I hope they move the scrollbars too just watch everybody’s reaction (can you imagine? lol)

    • http://twitter.com/BlackOtaku Avichi Suite

      No offense, but this is a damn old post; what brought you here? xD

  • disastrophe

    BTW, the rest of the Linux communities are watching this little drama unfold and quite literally falling out of their chairs laughing. There’s some really funny posts about it ifloating around the PCLOS and PCBSD forums not to mention Linuxforums. :D

    • Anonymous

      Really? They’re still laughing about it 6 months later?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_F2TUJR5CW6W37372M4Y44T26CQ thomas

    Who were the dumbass democrats who put the window controls on the left?