Poll Time: Happy With GIMP’s Going From Lucid?

By , Published November 18, 2009

Earlier we reported on the decision to ditch The GIMP in Ubuntu Lucid Lynx LTS. Lots of reasons why this is a good thing, and a fair few as to why it isn’t, but what counts is what you think. So…

 


Article originally appeared on omgubuntu.co.uk

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  • Anonymous

    gimp should be there, it’s needed to bring more people to ubuntu

  • http://twitter.com/kinesthesia kinesthesia

    It depends what they bring in in it’s place. In the end though it makes no difference to the user because you can still install GIMP after the fact..

    • Anonymous

      Indeed insted of chopping it off it makes more sense to replace it with something like Nathive.

  • Narfss

    I hate, F-Post, this app if a photo-organice, not a photo-editor.
    ¿Anyone see the diference?

  • Mexican user

    Actually I am a edit-***** and I love my Gimp.
    I’d hate seeing it get thrown away, but in the end it doesn’t matter since I can install it later.
    IMO Gimp is not just an Open Source app, it is THE Open Source App =D

    • http://ndrw.me AndrewNoNumbers

      I agree. GIMP is definitely the most impressive open source app there is, more so than even Firefox or OpenOffice.

  • Anonymous

    You ought to have a ‘don’t know/mind/care’ option here! GIMP is very powerful, but isn’t the easiest photo editing app to use. For basic editing functions I prefer to use Google Picasa, which you have to install anyway.

    • http://ndrw.me AndrewNoNumbers

      I think they’re planning to replace GIMP with a simple standalone image editor, like how Windows is packaged with Paint but not Photoshop.

      • Ben

        Is there a decent Paint replacement for Linux that’s not made for KDE, though?

        • http://ndrw.me AndrewNoNumbers

          Now that I think about it, no, although there’s an abundance for KDE.

        • http://yosoybubuntu.blogspot.com/ Javier

          Maybe MyPaint or Nathive?

        • daas88

          gnupaint

    • Maki

      “I prefer to use Google Picasa, which you have to install anyway.”
      Why have someone to install it?

      • Anonymous

        “I prefer to use Google Picasa, which you have to install anyway.”
        Why have someone to install it?

        Because Ubuntu is not shipped with it.

  • Anonymous

    maybe a “simple gimp”, a reduced version like the older Paint Shop Pro 7 or 8

  • http://www.linuxmint.com/ Jimbo

    1. Ubuntu has a policy of only shipping one app per task. There doesn’t need to be two image editing apps.
    2. Old stuck in the muds will complain Ubuntu is being dumbed down, but that is exactly what Ubuntu is trying to be, the Linux you can give to an average user. Average users don’t fire up Photoshop to edit their Facebook pictures.
    3. The idea that Gimp is needed to show how powerful Linux is doesn’t hold water. Anyone who would actually care about using such a powerful app already knows about GIMP. In the long run you would impress more people by showing how slick and easy to use Linux is.
    4. It will remove the problem of GIMP being a rude word in English and having it looking out of place on a menu in English speaking countries.
    5. It will free up space for something else.

    • http://connectschnig.blogspot.com/ kone4040

      Which other image editing app? F-Spot is a photo manager. I think it depends what someone thinks is photo editing. I think it is more than turning pictures. I wanted to persuade a windows user to swap to linux. He likes photo editing and stuff and uses Photoshop. I told him: no problem GIMP is installed by default –> And finally he gives it a try. I personally hope Ubuntu is not going to be the next Windows or Mac.
      I like GIMP and I like it being installed by default.

      • http://dieselliveson.blogspot.com DieselLives

        How difficult is it, really, to fire up the software manager and type GIMP? A click or two after and it’s installed. Done and dusted.

        • narfss

          Install is easy, the difficult is know that exits the app and is name.
          New users never know others app, and don’t search in forums the name.
          But, if it is installed (or see an add), they can try use… and learn. (True History, my fathers ask about Gimp and try use it)

          Kone4040 -> F-Shot = photo-manager +1

          Pd: Sorry, i’m learning English too XD.

          • Ben

            Hence the “staff picks” idea mentioned in this article?

      • http://www.linuxmint.com/ Jimbo

        You can get GIMP on Windows. Arguing like it is a ‘killer app’ worth switching to Linux to get is pure nonsense.

        • http://connectschnig.blogspot.com/ kone4040

          I don’t think GIMP is a ‘killer app’ that generally persuades people to switch to Linux. I just think there is no proper replacement for GIMP (and certainly it is not F-Spot). I do not have a problem with installing GIMP (What happens if I wanted to install Ubuntu on a PC without internet connection? –> I know sounds odd but my grandparents don’t have internet and are not planning to have it). I think the arguments to remove it from the default installation are weak. I personally think OpenOffice is not very usable for beginners (except you have a book) and it also uses a lot of disk space and WINDOWS also does not include MOffice by default why don’t remove it too. Advanced users will have no problem installing it from the repos? I’m just a little disappointed how often people compare Linux to Windows and that some people try to make Ubuntu like Windows. I switched 3 years ago because I did not like the way Microsoft does things anymore. And before I switched I used Photoshop for editing my photos.

          • Ben

            “I’m just a little disappointed how often people compare Linux to Windows and that some people try to make Ubuntu like Windows.”

            Odd sentiment coming from someone who just got through saying we should remove OpenOffice because Windows doesn’t come with any office software.

          • http://connectschnig.blogspot.com/ kone4040

            I meant that ironic, maybe just my english is to bad that people understand it. I meant if we remove everything Windows does not ship by default we end up with an empty distro. But who cares. I personally don’t mind GIMP being removed. I will install it anyway. I just think it is a bad decision if there is no proper replacement for it. Thats the cool thing about Linux there’s loads of other distros out there if you are not happy with Ubuntu.

          • Ben

            Sorry, I didn’t pick up on the irony.

            I think the deciding factor between removing Gimp and OpenOffice is that writing letters/reports/whatever-else-you-use-it-for is fairly core functionality. It should be present in any distro, and that it’s not in Windows is, in my mind, a major omission.

            I’d totally support replacing OpenOffice with a lighter alternative, although I don’t know how user expectations go.

            As for Gimp, I think most people don’t use it, or use it sparingly. Not nearly as often as they use a media player, text editor, web browser, IM app, etc.

          • http://connectschnig.blogspot.com/ kone4040

            I think thats true, GIMP is probably not the most used software. I’d love to see that they replace it with a proper alternative that is lighter and easier to use. But I don’t think something like “Paint whatever” is an alternative.
            I would prefer something like a Picasa/F-Spot mixture so I can install Ubuntu on my Grandfathers PC (got no internet there so I can only install what is on a liveCD).

            I think my problem is that I don’t know who the average Ubuntu user is (and I don’t want to make assumptions about it if I don’t have any numbers/statistics). The people I know, that use Ubuntu, are no beginners and they know what they are doing and what they want. The people I know, which just use office apps, IM, web browser etc. (which is pretty much all of my family and friends), hardly know something like Linux/Ubuntu exists (although I try to work on it).
            But I’m also just a user. I expect that the Ubuntu guys know what they are doing and they have the numbers/statistics that support their decision. I hope it’s the right one and they find a proper replacement.

          • Ben

            Actually, now that you mention it, I’m not really an average user in this area, either. I very rarely work with photos.

            I think F-Spot, or something similar like Picasa or Shotwell, is perfect here. Gimp is good for creating very complex effects from scratch, and yes, even touching up photos, but I think the kind of touch-up most people need will be best served by these applications. The average user will want to crop, brighten, remove red eye, tweak the contrast, etc. Sure, Gimp can do these things, but these applications can do that and organise photos by events, import from a camera, export to the web, and all the extra features that users want that the Gimp cannot provide. Well, some of them can.

            In short, I think photo management is a good default function. It’s what most people want to do. I totally agree that a paint clone is not a good default program. Unless all you want to do is clumsily crop photos and draw ovals, you’ll need something a little more comprehensive.

          • http://connectschnig.blogspot.com/ kone4040

            Yes, I’m with you. Photo management combined with basic image editing would be a proper alternative. I did not know Shotwell, I will give it a try.

            cheers

          • MLC

            I think advanced Graphic Design is a great default program. You don’t see Apple laying off on giving people advanced software out of the box, do you? GIMP preinstalled to me seems like one of the big steps above Apple as far as preinstalled software goes. But I guess not all of us are advanced graphic designers like me, so we know what we want. Just hope noobs don’t think they have to pirate photoshop and run it in Wine just to do this stuff XD. That’s all I’m really worried about is the impression it may give.

          • http://connectschnig.blogspot.com/ kone4040

            Maybe they can give some hint (during installation) to prevent something like that. :). I also think it is good to ship GIMP by default. But if the Ubuntu guys say most of the users don’t use/like it maybe it is really better to get rid of it as a default application. But I would still love to see some numbers/statistics. Are there such? I know I repeat myself but I am a real ubuntu fan and I hope this is the right decision.

    • daas88

      4. Really? what does gimp mean? i’m latin american, so i’m curious^^

      • http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ d0od

        Gimp, at least here in the UK and Europe, is related to Bondage…

        • daas88

          hmm ok… nasty developers xD

        • Ben

          I’ve never heard that.

          To me, Gimp is a rather rude way of referring to someone with a limp or physical disability, albeit a rather old-fashioned one.

          • Anonymous

            Have you never seen Pulp Fiction? :)

          • Ben

            Not in a long time, I’m afraid. Actually, the last time I saw it, I was probably too young to pick up on any bondage references.

            You’ve inspired me to watch it again!

  • Morgen

    I agree with ClaudiaD. I would have voted “don’t care”, but since there was no such kind a neutral option, I decided not to vote at all. Gimp is easy to install (or remove) when needed. On the other hand… there is one application which should have been removed instead of Gimp – and that is the Movie Player. I simply don’t like it and hence never use it. What makes Movie Player different from eg. Gimp, is the fact that it is very difficult to remove. It’s so deeply integrated to the system, that it cannot be removed without removing somewhat important stuff – like let’s say – gnome desktop!!! At least that’s the way it used to be with previous ubuntu releases…

    • Ben

      I just tried. Only thing it threatened to remove was the plugins and mozilla integration.

      I think that may have been a meta-package anyhow. If so, removing it would not have removed your entire desktop.

  • cm

    I love gimp, but I can see that there’s probably not a lot of average users who use it. I don’t mind installing it after the fact

  • pt

    To win new users over you have to impress them with the default apps.
    Gimp does that .
    An MS Paint clone want.

    For a new user they would most likely not know (esp. coming from Windows) that Gimp is closest substitute to Photoshop, and if they do know, they will not know that it is a lot easier to install Gimp on Linux than it is on Windows where you have to install the GTK libs.

    • Anonymous

      Agreed. I don’t understand why Ubuntu would drop one of their big competitive advantages over Windows, namely that it comes out of the box with lots of high quality software installed.

      You and I know it’s not a big deal to install it if you want it.

      But the average user coming from Windows doesn’t know that–they’re just impressed that there’s an alternative to Photoshop installed when they boot the first time.

  • Johannes Rexx

    (1) I use GIMP a lot, and it gives Ubuntu an edge over Windows
    (2) f-spot requires mono and I don’t want mono on my Ubuntu
    (3) f-spot is not a photo editor, it is lightweight organizer with few features for editing.

  • Anonymous

    I like the removal. I use gimp a bunch since I work in photography, but it would give a good first experience for someone who jumps into Ubuntu, get’s their feet wet, then wants more to play with. They install GIMP through the software center and BAM! Wow all this cool software you can download for free!

    It WILL be there in the repos just like other programs that aren’t installed by default.

  • http://cafelinux.org/ Aubrey

    I’m a big GIMP fan but have no problem with it (or anything else) being removed from the default set-up. I use Inkscape almost as much and I have to install it – so why not GIMP?

    I’d rather Picassa that F-spot, but I can cope with that too. I’m just an easy-to-please, flexible kind of person, it seems.

    My main concerns with Ubuntu right now is the tighter and tighter integration with Gnome. Many of Karmic’s new features only work properly (or at all) on the standard desktop. Thankfully, GIMP isn’t one of them.

  • Mel

    GIMP should go, some stupid games and evolution should go as well. Ubuntu has some crappy apps and there are plenty of other nice apps that deserve some time in the spotlight. Change is good. If you want extra apps, go get them. Windows ships with almost no apps and most people prefer it over Ubuntu even if Ubuntu is super productive out of the box. What really matters is suspend/resume, Wifi, GPU drivers and a very, very slick and easy to use UI. If you can install Ubuntu on any PC or Laptop without any problem, there’s the Software Center for the apps.

    Ubuntu’s menus are bloated with apps normal Joe and his grand ma’ will never use and don’t even care of using, so why bother? One of the first things I do is to edit the menus and trim all the confusing entries in there.

    I support 100% Ubuntu’s ‘dummying down the Linux desktop’ startegy. If dumb people can Use Ubuntu, we’ve come a long way, if not, we still have a lot of work to do. There are plenty of ‘smart’ distros for those ‘super smart geeks’ that like to go through 20 steps to install an app and see if it works.

    Canonical is going the right direction (except considering crappy PiTiVi). And keep in mind, Ubuntu is still a very young project, so don’t drop any conclusions, because this is just getting started.

    Thank’s!

  • Anonymous

    I love gimp. By gimp i mean gimp. not gimpshop. I like the interface of gimp since i use it a lot. But i think this is a good move. It shouldn’t be included for the same reason that ‘blender’ isn’t included with the distro.
    But as the others pointed out the games and other useless applications have to go as well.
    I was intrigued by doods idea to have software suites. This is a great idea. It would be even better if they were available as CDs with all the required libraries. In todays cloudish world people seems to have forgotten us, The unlucky few who don’t have super fast internet connections. If there was a way to get suits of applications on to CDs(smaller size and the compatibility than dvd) Ubuntu will be easy to adapt to in countries like ours (not in the US if you are wondering :P )

    Anyway, Nice site. Keep up the good work!

  • Mohan

    I would like to vote for don’t care, as it’s just as easy to add it on.

  • Navneeth

    After they threw out gThumb, I’ve been relying on GIMP to crop images. I mean a quick crop of some random image I downloaded from the web.

    I’m on the fence on this one, even though I would prefer GIMP to be included by default.

  • b3t0n

    People are weird creatures. They complain that GIMP is too complicated, offers too much for normal users, but think about all those people that download Photoshop just to crop photo for their facebook page…just leave GIMP in LTS as it was before.

  • Yfrwlf

    I think having Gimp there for new users to play with is a goody for new users, but I can certainly see why they might want to get rid of it due to its size.

    Still, I do wish they’d start officially supporting a DVD image as well for those who want more software pre-installed.

  • Guest

    it is not ok, i think! i see and understand that the gimp is way too overloaded for easy alldays use, but then, ask me, why do so many people enjoy photoshop? and even pay for it? the gimp is the only application similar to photoshop in the linux world, but what a luck it isnt just a PS clone. it is unique, maybe a bit weird too LOL but simply brillant and very powerful. i will miss it for sure, but hey, i can install it whenever i want!

    • Ben

      Consider how many people use Photoshop, and even pay for it, then ask yourself how many use Windows.

      Most people don’t use Photoshop. There’s a lot of people who do because there’s a lot of people.

  • http://www.FreezingMoon.org/ Dread Knight

    I’m a graphic artist and I agree with removing it. I can always install it later on, like I do with Inkscape, blender etc.

    Most people won’t ever use Gimp, I’m sure of it.

  • Nir

    In my opinion GIMP is a great software, but it is a software made for professional, and therefore is suited to everyone. That’s why it shouldn’t be installed by default. For the people who do need it, they will know where to find it.
    But, Ubuntu cannot leave this area of photo editing empty (like what’s happening in Video editing right now), there must be a replacement. A simple, less powerful, more intuitive one. If such thing does not exist, maybe the removal of GIMP will motivate the developers to make one.

    • Nir

      Fixing typo
      *”and therefore is suited to everyone”->”and therefore is NOT suited to everyone”

  • http://www.2pac4evah.com/ Michael

    I’m afraid, that, I am one of those idiots who think that GIMP’s interface is wrong, and don’t want to learn it because of it. However, I see now that the GIMP is a very powerful package, and got somewhat accustomed to it.
    Having said that, I would add a “cropping feature” and “hue/contrast, thingy” to the Eye of Gnome, or eog, and everything else could stay the same as it is now.

  • MLC

    GIMP is like, THE Linux application. It’s the open source equivalent of Photoshop, the most pirated software worldwide! To not include it is… I dunno’, stupid. Screw F-Spot, organization isn’t as important as features.

  • http://dieselliveson.blogspot.com DieselLives

    I don’t use The GIMP, never have on either Linux or Windows. I find it to be a very overcomplicated program.
    If changes were made to the UI, such as having the workspace and tools etc all within a single window, as opposed to having each as a seperate window then The GIMP would be a less daunting program to work with.
    At the moment though, I would not use it, it is too fussy, too overly complicated for the average user. I do not doubt that it is an excellent program, but to me it’s only as excellent as the UI. Which isn’t very excellent.

    • Ben

      Are you aware that the next release will have a single-window mode?

      • MLC

        I hope it doesn’t come as default. I don’t know about you guys, but I guess I’m not very smart with design, but I find it easier to use in separate windows. It’s incredibly useful for the kind of multimedia work I do- if it were all in one window I wouldn’t be able to have different desktops for each of my workflows. :

        But yeah, UI is important. I think GIMP does this very well, but you can always use GIMPshop if your too used to Photoshop’s interface. Things are bound to continually improve. I just hope that people don’t get a bad impression of Linux without GIMP there. : Seems like a really risky decision in my opinion, but there will always a be a spin-off that opts to include it, just like how they include multimedia, compiz settings, emerald, wine installed by default.

        So maybe it’s not so big of a deal. I still have a bad feeling about it. :C

        • http://dieselliveson.blogspot.com DieselLives

          I would have to agree, despite my grievance with the multiple window UI; those, like you, who have become somewhat accustomed to the UI will no doubt have issues with a single-window environment.
          Therefore I think that rather than a complete overhaul to a single window UI, The GIMP should have the option to toggle between the two, at least initially in the first few releases (after the single window UI is implemented)

          • Anonymous

            And that is exactly what the’re going to do.

        • Ben

          Last I saw, it was an option. Multi-window mode was still there.

      • http://dieselliveson.blogspot.com DieselLives

        I heard some weeks/months back that the next release would utilise a single window UI, but at the time that is all it was, a rumour.
        Is the rumour now confirmed, or are you just citing the same rumour?

  • http://olympusdigitalpen.blogspot.com/ dr. watson

    I don’t care if Gimp is left in or out of the release. I have never been a ‘Gimp’ fan, maybe I am subject to ‘Photoshop’ bias. I have been using photoshop since it’s inception and while I tried to use Gimp for several months, I could never really fall in love with it – the tools while decent are just not as intuitive and fluid as photoshop. As far as F-Spot being a replacement for basic editing, I think this is a mistake. The tools in F-Spot are pretty average at best and as a photo manager it leaves quite a bit to be desired.. I understand the argument that many people these days are simply editing pictures for facebook, but also consider with the prices dropping on SLRs, there are a ton of people buying high-end cameras and as result these people need better tools (albeit simple ones). Ubuntu needs something better than F-SPOT and Gimp, a hybrid application that provides photo management, cloud integration and a suite of tools in the form of ‘plug-ins’ which would allow the application to have unlimited extensibility (When I say ‘plug-ins’, I mean simple scripts that users can create to do things such as create a sepia or duo-toned image with one-click of the mouse, etc).

  • http://luhit.com/ manas

    Another one they can remove is Open Office. Takes too much space, updates are huge and I rarely use it. I would prefer Abiword and Gnumeric, they perfectly serves my need.

  • http://twitter.com/Paul3142 Paul

    I’d like GIMP to be left in, but for a simpler paint application to be added as well.

  • Bob Mottram

    Of course it will be trivial to install gimp separately, but having a program a program like gimp by default easily surpasses the default paint program which comes with Windows so is a selling point for new users. However, I agree that the interface is overly complex and could certainly be improved.

  • http://www.deluxelab.co.uk Cedric Francois

    I think it’s easy enough to add software such as Gimp or even Open Office yourself -personnally I’m tired of downloading big iso files.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/XL5IMN4PO2XAFS7FXAWFGIFRNM KnifeySpooney

    GIMP has a confusing interface, but I find it necessary to use if I want to edit pictures on Ubuntu. However, I understand that most users will never touch the program, and I don’t mind the quick download/install.

  • Anonymous

    One simpler solution: add gimp-gap package. It adds video support for GIMP, so we will lose nothing. Who the hell needs a video editor when most of the cameras out there record in non-free format? Even if you edit them you can’t watch them

  • Calvin

    Ubuntu needs a image drawing app. We need GIMP – F-Spot is only useful for photos.

  • Calvin

    mtPaint and Nathive come to mind, but mt is too quirky and Nathive does nothing.

    Also, the games and evolution are good apps, kills and saves time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=536239652 Anonymous

    GIMP – “the general user doesn’t use it”
    What in the world is a “general user”? Before they give a reason like that, I hope they back it up with credible numbers.

    The “general user” doesn’t use F-spot.
    The “general user” doesn’t use Evolution.
    The “general user” doesn’t use Tomboy Notes.
    The “general user” doesn’t use the Terminal.

    See, the term “general user” is used very loosely — and is defined subjectively.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll still be able to install it using third party repositories, so I can live with it. But, as someone who has touted my ability to support my business using open source apps (exc for one – 2D/3D CAD app), this is kind of disappointing. GIMP has been a cornerstone in my ability to go 99.9% Windows-free. Although I am not a professional graphics artist, I need a ‘Photoshop-like’ program to augment the CAD work I do and GIMP has done everything I ever needed to do – and, very well.

  • Calimo

    At last people start realizing GIMP is not adapted for a distro like Ubuntu. Gimp is far too complicated to use with lots of windows and obscure functions. It cannot address tasks such as « remove red eyes », and tasks like « cropping » are dramatically difficult. Instead, it confuses the user with 4 different selection tools and 5 for changing time image shape/size, in a window that always ends up behind the image window.

    GIMP is really a great tool, but it has been needing a drastic redesign for years. Let’s hope it is finally the chance to do it.

  • Marcus

    If you really want to save space, get rid of mono and it’s dependencies/applications.

  • optimize me

    If the GIMP interface wasn’t such a cluster****, I’d be all for keeping it. As it stands, GIMP is an eyesore and that only makes it harder to use. Hard to use applications aren’t worth keeping around, and as such, GIMP (as well as a few others) is one of the first things I ditch in a fresh install.

  • justino

    Honestly I feel a tad overwhelmed when I go to use Gimp to do something simple. Same way I never learned to use Photoshop in Windows because paint was sufficient to do the relatively silly stuff I needed it for, I would rather not bother learning Gimp. I think from a standpoint of the Ubuntu guys that decide what’s included, the relevant question would be “Have you ever used The Gimp?” and probably the majority of people either a) haven’t used it or b) used it to rotate an image/shrink an image, all of which can be more efficiently accomplished more easily through simpler tools.
    In my opinion, the only software that’s shipped with the OS should be what the majority of people will need. Otherwise, it’s bloat to the rest of us who don’t need it.

  • http://drawsketch.about.com/ Helen South

    It’s so mindbogglingly easy to install software with LInux package managers – I’d be happy if they’d leave most of the software out so I can just pick what I want. If you want Gimp, you can get it with a few clicks. Easy!

 
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